Cheats

[Sports_Fanatic]

So your holding off getting a handicap because your playing well.

So your going to wait until your playing worse then stick in 3 cards so you get a higher handicap.

Is this not a classic case of getting a higher handicap so you can do well in comps.:angry:

I think you misunderstood their quote, I read it that they think some much better rounds are round the corner so they are waiting till they have that form in order to be assigned a lower handicap and then enter comps without the risk of shooting very low.

Personally that feels pretty sad that because of the stigma of people like the OP with this thread, people won't just get on with marking cards, playing in comps at a new club and getting stuck in because they think everyone will judge them through no fault of their own.

 

[walliams8]

No shovel required at all. Yes I believe I can shoot a level par if everything goes right, but I probably never will.
There's one thing having belief in your ability and confidence to do well, and it's another thing doing it. That I'm aware of.
Why is it such a ridiculous statement?

If you think I belong in one of them categories which is a completely irrational view, then I'd have to go in the I believe I'm better than I actually am camp.

Your other assumptions are not worthy of replying to. Pretty shocked by them.

I'd honestly just ignore it mate . I think his theory is if your an 11 handicap you shouldn't be allowed to believe or shoot any lower .

 

[delc]

A few years ago as a 17 handicapper, I managed to score 46 points in a competition. I just had a particularly good day with every lucky bounce going and all my putts going in (for once)! My gross score was 79, seven over par. It took me another 3 years and a lot of practice to break 80 again. The fact that a player gets a pretty good score does not automatically mean he is a bandit, but if he does this on a regular basis in open competitions, then he probably is!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well, I think there are several different groups bundled in there, and not necessarily all as bad as each other.

A cheat is someone who knowingly breaks the rules. If this happens in a causal game with no money riding on it, then the person is only cheating themselves. In competition, it should be treated harshly.

There are also those who don't know the rules. Just last week, someone in my group talked about declaring a ball lost. He really didn't know the proper rule. This is common for dropping from hazards and obstructions. These people need to be taught the rules, but aren't usually wilful cheats.

Then there are bandits. These are people who deliberately massage their handicaps in order to improve their chances in big competitions. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game. I do feel sorry for people wrongly accused of banditry when they are just rapidly improving higher handicappers who get a field day result.

With this 100%

To be honest, in all my years I am not aware of having played with a wilful cheat - plenty of folks not knowing the rules and a few handicap massagers. But then in each of my last two medal rounds I've dropped 4 shots over 17 and 18 - and both times stayed in the buffer. Some could look at that and think it is suspiciously like protecting my handicap.

 

[Rooter]

A few years ago as a 17 handicapper, I managed to score 46 points in a competition. I just had a particularly good day with every lucky bounce going and all my putts going in (for once)! My gross score was 79, seven over par. It took me another 3 years and a lot of practice to break 80 again. The fact that a player gets a pretty good score does not automatically mean he is a bandit, but if he does this on a regular basis in open competitions, then he probably is!

Exactly where i am Del, well I am 2 years from my 79 and i have not come close to breaking 80 since! I have been called a bandit, but by the 18th its normally levelled out... best one was i was -3 gross after 7 holes. got a +0.1. The back 9 beat me up!

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I like these type of threads because some people need a massive shovel to dig themselves out.

You believe you are capable of shooting a level par round off 11 that in my opinion is a ridiculous statement.

You must seriously believe your handicap is dodgy or you believe you are a lot better than you really are.

If a single figure golfer shot 11 under or believed he could he would be playing off scratch or better.

What your basically saying is you have the potential to be a bandit.

I don't think there is anything wrong with their statement, I'm now down to 13 and I know I've been through patches where I've shot 7 or 8 pars in a row, it obviously shows that I have the ability to be a much lower handicap but maybe mentally I'm not there as I throw in a high hole every so often, or have bad weeks in comps when I'm trying very hard to get under handicap.

It also depends on what parts of your game is inconsistent, my driving is normally wayward causing a lot of issues but the days when it suddenly clicks and I'm driving long and straight makes the course a lot easier.

Similarly pros can hit low 60s and probably hope for/expect that but on other days hit high 70s.

I personally dislike these threads, yes pure cheating happens and maybe there are some bandits, but I don't think there is as many as people make out, so these comments just ruin everyones day by always jumping to that assumption. Whether it's a spoiler on someones comp win, or the annoying matchplay where you've played well but get comments throughout about handicap. I'd much rather assume people enter comps and try to play their best, and some days everything goes well which is when you really love the game.

 

[pokerjoke]

Read it again please.

I'm holding off because I don't want a high handicap. I want it to be as low as possible . My game is close to being very good , if I put cards in now I could be an 18 as still tweaking my swing about and practising very hard .
If I wait I am more likely to be a lot lower and make it fairer for me to play in competitions .

Ok ive read it again.

I suppose it could be read either way to be honest as you did not give your plan.

However if I was wrong I apologies.

Interesting that you say you going to wait for your game to get really good to get a lower handicap,however your handicap after 3 cards will actually be what it should be and where your game is at if you do it fairly.

 

[JV24601]

I think you misunderstood their quote, I read it that they think some much better rounds are round the corner so they are waiting till they have that form in order to be assigned a lower handicap and then enter comps without the risk of shooting very low.

Personally that feels pretty sad that because of the stigma of people like the OP with this thread, people won't just get on with marking cards, playing in comps at a new club and getting stuck in because they think everyone will judge them through no fault of their own.

And you sir have misunderstood the OP. Never mind though.

I've acknowledged people coming down the handicap system are more than capable of shooting a great score and that is to be expected.
You miss my main gripe of this thread though.

 

[JV24601]

A few years ago as a 17 handicapper, I managed to score 46 points in a competition. I just had a particularly good day with every lucky bounce going and all my putts going in (for once)! My gross score was 79, seven over par. It took me another 3 years and a lot of practice to break 80 again. The fact that a player gets a pretty good score does not automatically mean he is a bandit, but if he does this on a regular basis in open competitions, then he probably is!

Exactly Delc - and thank you for understanding my point.

Maybe it's me and the way I wrote it in hindsight.

 

[bobmac]

I played in the British Senior Masters many years ago where a guy off 8 won it with 42 pts.
Before he teed off, someone questioned his handicap with the organisers as he knew the guy played off 2 the previous year. A phone call was made to his club who confirmed his handicap but had only been a member for a few months.......mmmmmmm

 

[JV24601]

I don't think there is anything wrong with their statement, I'm now down to 13 and I know I've been through patches where I've shot 7 or 8 pars in a row, it obviously shows that I have the ability to be a much lower handicap but maybe mentally I'm not there as I throw in a high hole every so often, or have bad weeks in comps when I'm trying very hard to get under handicap.

It also depends on what parts of your game is inconsistent, my driving is normally wayward causing a lot of issues but the days when it suddenly clicks and I'm driving long and straight makes the course a lot easier.

Similarly pros can hit low 60s and probably hope for/expect that but on other days hit high 70s.

I personally dislike these threads, yes pure cheating happens and maybe there are some bandits, but I don't think there is as many as people make out, so these comments just ruin everyones day by always jumping to that assumption. Whether it's a spoiler on someones comp win, or the annoying matchplay where you've played well but get comments throughout about handicap. I'd much rather assume people enter comps and try to play their best, and some days everything goes well which is when you really love the game.

That's how I started out, believing it not to be true. I had 2 main gripes with golf:

1 - People's obsession with slow play and a belief that holes should be a set amount of time. I'm far from slow but I'm not fast either as I don't want to be.

2 - People's obsession with the word bandit. I've been called it myself many times but I very much doubt any of them genuinely believed I was when they sat down at the end of the round and thought about it.

Now here I am calling people bandits, and that's just unfortunately down to the fact that I've witnessed some things very recently that have left a sour taste in my mouth.

For the record, I've also played in competitions where a surprisingly low score has won and it showed everyone either struggled, or the course wasn't playing as easy as I'd expected - and that makes me happy.
Daft scores from excellent looking players who often repeatedly do it, with every shot in their locker at 18-20 handicap does not make me happy.

 

[bladeplayer]

Unfortunately, golf competition at amateur level is just ruined by cheats, or bandits as people call them.
Open competitions, and tournaments, leagues etc. I'm on about here.

I may be stating the obvious here but I've only just come to realise this and it's a massive shame.

Unfortunately the handicap system can be abused and I'm sad and frustrated about it as I've encountered it lots in my short golf career and now I'm giving up on such competitions despite me enjoying most aspects of them.

YEP
YEP

When you actually come to accept this your attitude to golf will change & you will play for handicap ..
I know im playing for gross prize most weeks or if i play really well maybe a catagory, but css i what i look for most times, not winning score ,
47pts has won in our place twice in the last week ,(open week) both good lads both honest golfers , one is defo mad to get his handicap down and was more over the moon with the handicap cut than the win

Walliams - I'm off 11 and am capable of shooting a level par I believe. But as I've said, it's the way people play, not necessarily their scores.
You can tell a lot from their swing, and it's also the frequency of their astounding rounds.

I have about 4 weeks a year where I'll get a really pleasing score. A lot of guys have them most times they play.

A few things in here, off 11 even if you play half aswell as you need to you are shooting 41/42 pts , that is a great score .
Dont assume you can tell how good someone is by their swing ,& if they are doing these rounds frequently the handicap system including the handicap secretary shouls be controlling it ..

But ive been where you are now , i play golf for me , i enjoy it again (sometimes)

 

[walliams8]

Ok ive read it again.

I suppose it could be read either way to be honest as you did not give your plan.

However if I was wrong I apologies.

Interesting that you say you going to wait for your game to get really good to get a lower handicap,however your handicap after 3 cards will actually be what it should be and where your game is at if you do it fairly.

The problem at the moment is I have played the last 2 months solid . Practise , lessons etc . I am still changing a lot in my swing and my irons are so close to being perfect . At the moment I'm struggling with driver off the tee as making some adjustments , left right you name it . I played 10 holes with a mate in the week , 4 par 3s and 6 par 4s . All holes I could hit iron off the tee . I shot -2 gross .

I played 18 holes 5 days after , and took 5 off the tee with my driver twice . If I can figure my driver out I think I can easily be single digits . If I can't then I could be quite easily 18 as losing balls rapidly off the tee !

 

[JV24601]

I played in the British Senior Masters many years ago where a guy off 8 won it with 42 pts.
Before he teed off, someone questioned his handicap with the organisers as he knew the guy played off 2 the previous year. A phone call was made to his club who confirmed his handicap but had only been a member for a few months.......mmmmmmm

Did anything happen Bob?
There's loads of ways to cheat your handicap unfortunately. The sport relies on good etiquette and values, but unfortunately some people abuse it.

 

[JV24601]

YEP
YEP

When you actually come to accept this your attitude to golf will change & you will play for handicap ..
I know im playing for gross prize most weeks or if i play really well maybe a catagory, but css i what i look for most times, not winning score ,
47pts has won in our place twice in the last week ,(open week) both good lads both honest golfers , one is defo mad to get his handicap down and was more over the moon with the handicap cut than the win




A few things in here, off 11 even if you play half aswell as you need to you are shooting 41/42 pts , that is a great score .
Dont assume you can tell how good someone is by their swing ,& if they are doing these rounds frequently the handicap system including the handicap secretary shouls be controlling it ..

But ive been where you are now , i play golf for me , i enjoy it again (sometimes)

Cheers BP. I can 100% say when I come in from my club competitions the first think I ask is what CSS is. I'm desperate to get down to as low as I can. A win and some money in my account is a bonus, but certainly secondary.

The Opens and such just annoy me when the great prizes are on offer and they come and sweep up.

 

[pokerjoke]

I'd honestly just ignore it mate . I think his theory is if your an 11 handicap you shouldn't be allowed to believe or shoot any lower .

Absolute rubbish.

Of course anyone can shoot lower than their handicap otherwise how else are you going to get cut.

But the op suggested in he could tell what handicap someone could be by seeing him hit the ball[rubbish].

He also suggested he could hit par off his 11 handicap of course he can anythings possible.

But I know that i don't think i could shoot 11 under my handicap at all.

 

[Region3]

I think the worst cases are the national matchplays when you see the same names getting a free holiday in Portugal or Dubai every year. I've stopped playing in those for the time being.

I play in opens because it's a relatively cheap way to play nice courses, often with a bit of food thrown in as well.

If it bothers you that much, just stick to opens that are handicap qualifying. I don't imagine true bandits would want to play in those.

 

[pokerjoke]

No shovel required at all. Yes I believe I can shoot a level par if everything goes right, but I probably never will.
There's one thing having belief in your ability and confidence to do well, and it's another thing doing it. That I'm aware of.
Why is it such a ridiculous statement?

If you think I belong in one of them categories which is a completely irrational view, then I'd have to go in the I believe I'm better than I actually am camp.

Your other assumptions are not worthy of replying to. Pretty shocked by them.

I have absolutely no problem with people thinking they are better than they are,in fact i believe i could get to cat1 and i believe i could shoot a few under my handicap.

But 11 shots? that's a lot of confidence.

 

[duncan mackie]

I find it strange that in a world where some people are prepared to kill for material items and burglary is almost accepted behaviour it's seemed as unexpected that some unsavory characters also play golf...

As mentioned already they will tend to be found where there are financial rewards and no risk (non qualifying events). Ironically the more efforts (bad ones in practice) organisers put in to deter them (reduced handicap allowances and limits) the better their odds become!

It's also clearly the case that some clubs handicap committees don't want to get involved (and as such players won't compete in club events if they are serious about their craft they would have to get very active to even find out there's a possible issue).

Steps are in place with CDH to assist in the moving/restart/handicap reset situations but the system remains fundamentally flawed because you can't check against just name for historical records. You are left with a system that simply (should) support multiple clubs and Q open event administration.

 

[walliams8]

He also suggested he could hit par off his 11 handicap of course he can anythings possible.

But I know that i don't think i could shoot 11 under my handicap at all.

But like you said , anything is possible .