Cheats

[JV24601]

Unfortunately, golf competition at amateur level is just ruined by cheats, or bandits as people call them.
Open competitions, and tournaments, leagues etc. I'm on about here.

I may be stating the obvious here but I've only just come to realise this and it's a massive shame.

Unfortunately the handicap system can be abused and I'm sad and frustrated about it as I've encountered it lots in my short golf career and now I'm giving up on such competitions despite me enjoying most aspects of them.

 

[Hacker Khan]

How about playing them for enjoyment and not let the fact you didn't win spoil what you say is an enjoyable experience?

 

[Ethan]

Well, I think there are several different groups bundled in there, and not necessarily all as bad as each other.

A cheat is someone who knowingly breaks the rules. If this happens in a causal game with no money riding on it, then the person is only cheating themselves. In competition, it should be treated harshly.

There are also those who don't know the rules. Just last week, someone in my group talked about declaring a ball lost. He really didn't know the proper rule. This is common for dropping from hazards and obstructions. These people need to be taught the rules, but aren't usually wilful cheats.

Then there are bandits. These are people who deliberately massage their handicaps in order to improve their chances in big competitions. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game. I do feel sorry for people wrongly accused of banditry when they are just rapidly improving higher handicappers who get a field day result.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

Unfortunately, golf competition at amateur level is just ruined by cheats, or bandits as people call them.
Open competitions, and tournaments, leagues etc. I'm on about here.

I may be stating the obvious here but I've only just come to realise this and it's a massive shame.

Unfortunately the handicap system can be abused and I'm sad and frustrated about it as I've encountered it lots in my short golf career and now I'm giving up on such competitions despite me enjoying most aspects of them.

So every time when someone comes in with a good score and the calls of bandit ring out they are in fact calling them cheats?

I agree that there will always be players that manipulate the handicap system and travel to various open comps to pick up the prizes and even turn out in their own major comps and very little else but week in week out the club handicap system seems to work very well. It is designed to give every golfer an equal chance of winning.

 

[JV24601]

It's not that I don't win Hacker. Far from it. I consider myself successful and actually delighted if I get 36 points anywhere. I always have and always will. But the fact is 36 in nowhere near enough as simply silly scores come in.
You get these mid to 18 handicappers who yes - are capable of a very good round - but you can tell from the way somebody hits it what they should roughly be off.
I've seen some ridiculous players and shenanigans.

 

[walliams8]

I'm sure a lot of these "bandits" are genuine players . I've always played off 18 but always been capable of shooting 9 over or 28 over .
However , as I have just joined a new club and feel like my game is so close to being very good , I am holding off on getting a handicap for this very reason .
I don't want to be put off 18 for arguments sake and shoot 7 over in the first comp .

 

[JV24601]

So every time when someone comes in with a good score and the calls of bandit ring out they are in fact calling them cheats?

I agree that there will always be players that manipulate the handicap system and travel to various open comps to pick up the prizes and even turn out in their own major comps and very little else but week in week out the club handicap system seems to work very well. It is designed to give every golfer an equal chance of winning.

No GBH - I've had a 42 before (my highest stableford score) and it could have been more. But it was on my way down through the handicaps. As I've said in my last post, you can tell from most people's swings if they're a bandit or not. Last week I saw a lad off 19 (playing off 18 for the comp) who had a fantastic swing and didn't hit a bad shot all round... apart from when...bizarrely he seemed to change his swing and mess up when his partner was in a great position.
I've also seen the same bloke off 12 (been on 12 for 3 years now) win a lot of decent competitions and always be in the mix with mid 40 point scores. Why doesn't he go down in handicap?!

Bandit gets used too often. I've lost count of the times I've been called it after 4 holes - before finishing with about 30 points.
I simply call those that manipulate the handicap system, cheats.

I'm not thinking of an alternative for it either, it's just a shame that this exists.

 

[JV24601]

I'm sure a lot of these "bandits" are genuine players . I've always played off 18 but always been capable of shooting 9 over or 28 over .
However , as I have just joined a new club and feel like my game is so close to being very good , I am holding off on getting a handicap for this very reason .
I don't want to be put off 18 for arguments sake and shoot 7 over in the first comp .

Walliams - I'm off 11 and am capable of shooting a level par I believe. But as I've said, it's the way people play, not necessarily their scores.
You can tell a lot from their swing, and it's also the frequency of their astounding rounds.

I have about 4 weeks a year where I'll get a really pleasing score. A lot of guys have them most times they play.

 

[Slab]

If you build it they will come

A lot of amateur handicap comps seem to have very very good prizes, it'll inevitably bring out all manner of competitor, most are good, the minority are bad

I'll enter if I think the comp is VFM for the golf alone, not much else matters

 

[JV24601]

If you build it they will come

A lot of amateur handicap comps seem to have very very good prizes, it'll inevitably bring out all manner of competitor, most are good, the minority are bad

I'll enter if I think the comp is VFM for the golf alone, not much else matters

Good point Slab - I'll probably continue to play some just for my own enjoyment if it's a great course and good VFM.

 

[JV24601]

Then there are bandits. These are people who deliberately massage their handicaps in order to improve their chances in big competitions. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game. I do feel sorry for people wrongly accused of banditry when they are just rapidly improving higher handicappers who get a field day result.

Ethan - do you not think people who protect their handicaps and throw rounds to get .1 back and then win a great competition with a false handicap are not cheats?

 

[Slab]

Good point Slab - I'll probably continue to play some just for my own enjoyment if it's a great course and good VFM.

Probably the best way forward

I enjoy the ones I can play in but being cat4 I don't have much in the way of expectation anyway, I will pay a bit more if its a fundraiser or charity event but most of the time I just think of the golf & who I'm playing with (oh and the bar afterwards)

 

[turkish]

As I've said in my last post, you can tell from most people's swings if they're a bandit or not. Last week I saw a lad off 19 (playing off 18 for the comp) who had a fantastic swing and didn't hit a bad shot all round... apart from when...bizarrely he seemed to change his swing and mess up when his partner was in a great position.
I've also seen the same bloke off 12 (been on 12 for 3 years now) win a lot of decent competitions and always be in the mix with mid 40 point scores. Why doesn't he go down in handicap?!

I don't think this is true at all... I've been told I dont swing like a 28 handicapper but usually always around the 32-35 points at that handicap..... I've seen guys off 7 who swing like a toilet door but what they have is fantastic course management and a consistent swing. Might not be the prettiest but they know exactly what's gonna happen so saying you can tell by someone's swing alone is a load of tosh IMO

 

[JV24601]

Probably the best way forward

I enjoy the ones I can play in but being cat4 I don't have much in the way of expectation anyway, I will pay a bit more if its a fundraiser or charity event but most of the time I just think of the golf & who I'm playing with (oh and the bar afterwards)

It's what I've been trying to do, but I also like the competition element of it, and find it so annoying when someone rocks up who you know is playing off a false handicap.

For the record - I've played with people before who I've never seen and they've had a great score. But I believe I'm educated enough to know when they're having a good day or if they're just cheating themselves handicap wise.

 

[JV24601]

I don't think this is true at all... I've been told I dont swing like a 28 handicapper but usually always around the 32-35 points at that handicap..... I've seen guys off 7 who swing like a toilet door but what they have is fantastic course management and a consistent swing. Might not be the prettiest but they know exactly what's gonna happen so saying you can tell by someone's swing alone is a load of tosh IMO

Fair do's Turkish, you're more than entitled to your opinion obviously. Think you've missed my point slightly though.
I've seen low handicappers with poor looking swings. I'm on about high handicappers with glorious swings who consistently do well and don't come down from their handicap.

I'm told every week I'm not an 11 handicapper and I'll be 6 or 7 in no time, but I've not a won a competition yet or been close to it. Whereas the guys I'm referring to are constantly there at these competitions and in the mix.

 

[pokerjoke]

Walliams - I'm off 11 and am capable of shooting a level par I believe. But as I've said, it's the way people play, not necessarily their scores.
You can tell a lot from their swing, and it's also the frequency of their astounding rounds.

I have about 4 weeks a year where I'll get a really pleasing score. A lot of guys have them most times they play.

I like these type of threads because some people need a massive shovel to dig themselves out.

You believe you are capable of shooting a level par round off 11 that in my opinion is a ridiculous statement.

You must seriously believe your handicap is dodgy or you believe you are a lot better than you really are.

If a single figure golfer shot 11 under or believed he could he would be playing off scratch or better.

What your basically saying is you have the potential to be a bandit.

 

[pokerjoke]

I'm sure a lot of these "bandits" are genuine players . I've always played off 18 but always been capable of shooting 9 over or 28 over .
However , as I have just joined a new club and feel like my game is so close to being very good , I am holding off on getting a handicap for this very reason .
I don't want to be put off 18 for arguments sake and shoot 7 over in the first comp .

So your holding off getting a handicap because your playing well.

So your going to wait until your playing worse then stick in 3 cards so you get a higher handicap.

Is this not a classic case of getting a higher handicap so you can do well in comps.:angry:

 

[walliams8]

So your holding off getting a handicap because your playing well.

So your going to wait until your playing worse then stick in 3 cards so you get a higher handicap.

Is this not a classic case of getting a higher handicap so you can do well in comps.:angry:

Read it again please.

I'm holding off because I don't want a high handicap. I want it to be as low as possible . My game is close to being very good , if I put cards in now I could be an 18 as still tweaking my swing about and practising very hard .
If I wait I am more likely to be a lot lower and make it fairer for me to play in competitions .

 

[Paul77]

This is why I just play for my own enjoyment. Play some work days out etc and bounce games with mates. The minute you throw a prize in the mix, people will find a way to try and win it. Should comp golfers be sitting a golf rule theory test before they can play in comps?

 

[JV24601]

I like these type of threads because some people need a massive shovel to dig themselves out.

You believe you are capable of shooting a level par round off 11 that in my opinion is a ridiculous statement.

You must seriously believe your handicap is dodgy or you believe you are a lot better than you really are.

If a single figure golfer shot 11 under or believed he could he would be playing off scratch or better.

What your basically saying is you have the potential to be a bandit.

No shovel required at all. Yes I believe I can shoot a level par if everything goes right, but I probably never will.
There's one thing having belief in your ability and confidence to do well, and it's another thing doing it. That I'm aware of.
Why is it such a ridiculous statement?

If you think I belong in one of them categories which is a completely irrational view, then I'd have to go in the I believe I'm better than I actually am camp.

Your other assumptions are not worthy of replying to. Pretty shocked by them.