Calling Ali B

[pjaz]

Hi Ali

Just read your article in this months GM magazine. Your comment regarding upgrading women's locker rooms made me chuckle - though probably not for the right reason.

A colleague at work, her husband has recently started working in the golf indusry seling new wooden lockers specifically for golf clubs - he moved from selling lockers to the health/fitness industry.

It's been a bit of an eye opener as he's been to 2-3 clubs where they have ordered new lockers for the men (and these are quality wooden lockers) but have stated that they aren't bothering with the womens!!! (He's a non-golfer so its a whole new world to him) One club used the excuse they didn't have a ladies captain - I wonder why.

On the other part regarding mixed playing, I am playing golf with a female colleague on Maundy Thursday, but she has turned down the chance to play in a bigger society event planned for the same day as she didn't want to be shown up.

Looks like there is some way to go, but believe everyone on the GM forum supports your article. I'll take your article to work tomorrow to show both y female colleagues.

 

[USER1999]

Whilst agreeing with most of your article, and not being against women golfers in any way, I have still always wondered why the womens tees are so far in front of the mens, in many cases bypassing most of the hazards, and then giving higher handicaps too. Several of the women I play with hit a very good ball, in some cases driving 40 yards short of the greens because the ladies tee is stupidly far forwards.
Maybe the rules should be looked at regarding tees, and just bunt the higher h/caps onto the reds, mid to the yellows, and low to the whites, much as they do in the states.

 

[clubchamp07]

If you look at a map of Ireland you will see a big Lough called Lough Neagh. Well my golf course lies near the top right hand side of this lough. During the year I suggested that we build a new golf course in the middle of this lough, for women only. Some of the women thought I was only joking.

Well to be honest I was. LOL. I was going to write this thread as being serious but thought I would get alot of greif.
I have no problem with women golfers, but I can't see the harm in them playing during the middle of the night. That would leave the course free for us Gents.
Then with this time of hour it wouldn't matter what colour of tee' they played from.
Just a rant before I go and see my Pro for some lesson's for our Junior's.

Only joking AliB

 

[AliB]

Hi pjaz

It's been a bit of an eye opener as he's been to 2-3 clubs where they have ordered new lockers for the men (and these are quality wooden lockers) but have stated that they aren't bothering with the womens!!!

did I mention lockers? we have 2 loos (which I once cleaned myself) and a shower i wouldn't go near if you paid me! (sorry not to name and shame, but don't want to get chucked out)

On the other part regarding mixed playing, I am playing golf with a female colleague on Maundy Thursday, but she has turned down the chance to play in a bigger society event planned for the same day as she didn't want to be shown up.

Well, there you have it, but at least she was asked

I'll take your article to work tomorrow to show both y female colleagues.

Be interested to have some ladies' views - they could always write to GM!

AliB

 

[AliB]

clubchamp
there is the odd time I might appreciate a man-free golf-course too
(A lot depends on the man)

re tees and distances - it seems to vary a lot from course to course. It has occurred to me that red tees are intended for women playing against women rather than against men, as there are usually different Scratch scores etc (sorry, a bit vague on technicalities) -I would just say that a man off 23 can usually hit a good way further than me off the tee. Noticed that in France ladies' tees are usually well forward. This can make for a more sociable game, in that a couple can then proceed more or less together up the fairway (unless the man is in a mood about his tee position!)

AliB

 

[TonyN]

I think there should only be Comp tee's, Non comp tee's and Junior tee's.

Everyone should play off the same tee's, isnt that what the idea of a handicap is to make the game a level playing ground.

But i also understand that women are normally shorter hitters than men so can see why they have ladies tee's.

There is a course near me (Mollington- i think it spelt) in Chester. The hole is about 600 yards from the yellow tee's. Pond goes across the fairway at about 350 yards. The ladies tee is basically on the edge of the pond.
What is the point. Ladies should get to play it as a long hole too. Gents have no chance of going over with there first shot so ladies shouldnt either. Should have to play to the edge and take the second shot over it.

 

[viscount17]

But i also understand that women are normally shorter hitters than men so can see why they have ladies tee's.

Isn't this the point of a ladies handicap of 36 being equivalent to a men's 24?

 

[pjaz]

Its hard to put yourself in other's shoes, but I enjoy my golf and want to challenge myself each time I play. I don't tend to play of white's as don't play in medals etc, but do reduce my handicap to see how I get on/if I have improved. I often play with my 9 year old and tell him he can play off the red tee's but he will only play off the yellows (and would play off the whites if I let him as he is naturally competetive, but not quite good enough at the moment).

There is some argument for the tees according to ability rather than gender, but as I usually play on muni's there will be nothing to stop the hackers playing off the yellows as their pride won't let them tee off a higher handicap tee.

 

[GB72]

I think that there is an argument for re-naming the tees. I have seen a number of juniors who will not play off the reds because they are the 'ladies' tees.

 

[TonyN]

But i also understand that women are normally shorter hitters than men so can see why they have ladies tee's.

Isn't this the point of a ladies handicap of 36 being equivalent to a men's 24?

If a lady played off 24 and so did a man, should they both play off the same tee?

 

[Leftie]

[quote
If a lady played off 24 and so did a man, should they both play off the same tee?

[/QUOTE]

The lady's handicap has been gained off the red tees. If she were playing off the whites (for h/cap purposes) she would almost certainly be playing off a higher h/cap. If you want them to play off the same tees as you, they would rightly want more shots.

 

[TonyN]

yeah that would be justified i guess.

I should of pointed out that i was thinkin more along the lines of my idea where lady's play off the same tee's as men, therefor the handicap system would even out the difference in how far a women can hit it compared to a man.

I dont suppose many people would share this idea and probably women would be more against it because it might mean that it would be even harder for them to lower there handicaps due to the difference in distance for the course.

 

[Dave3498]

I agree with TonyN, and I think it will eventually come to pass that there will be common teeing areas for Ladies and Gents, letting the handicap system take care of the difference in hitting length. There will also be a spin-off in reduction in course maintenance, not having to maintain Ladies' tees. If we want true equality - this is it.

 

[AliB]

The lady's handicap has been gained off the red tees. If she were playing off the whites (for h/cap purposes) she would almost certainly be playing off a higher h/cap. If you want them to play off the same tees as you, they would rightly want more shots.

Leftie, you have got it in one. Also, there's often a distance in SSI depending what tees are used, which also calls for adjustment of shots.

AliB

 

[DCB]

Thank goodness we're living in the enlightened 21st century. I'd hate to live back in the dark ages when women were unwanted on our golf courses!

OK forget who can hit the ball longest/hardest/highest and all that.

It might come as a shock to some on here that ladies can indeed play golf. Some of them play it to a very high standard. Some don't, but I'm sure all of them play it for enjoyment, the same reason we do?

I regularly play against my wife on a variety of different courses when we are on holidays etc. If she plays to handicap and I play to handicap the nett difference between our scores and the SSS for the course we have played is more often than not negligible. We often halve matches or one or other of us sneaks a win by one or two strokes.

I have watched ladies at our club, some of whom play to a very high standard, and the main difference between their game and our game is the lack of brute force! The good players are far more rythmical in their swing and as a result usually more acurate.

Playing at a club where women are Ordinary members has not created any problems for me as far as I'm aware,(other than my wife playing more golf than me sometimes!) The Ladies tees are further forward on some holes, and sometimes the same length but all this is taken into account of the course rating, ie the sss, so it doesn't worry me where they play from (unless you're at the Torrance at St Andrews Bay where some ladies tees are a taxi ride in front of the mens back tees!)

Anyway I'm away back below the parapet awaiting the response to all this.

Cheers

 

[clubchamp07]

I played alot of mixed golf last year with some good ball strikers (ladies) and I tell you what, I wish I could hit every fairway and putt the way some of these ladies play. I learnt alot from playing with the ladies.
I'm only winding people up when I say about their own golf course.

 

[Leftie]

Apart from a muni a few years ago where the language was a bit too fruity for my tender ears, I've never had a problem with ladies on the course. They are usually much quicker that us as their ball is usually in the middle of the fairway and all they have to do is walk up and hit it, rather than us looking for the machoed drive into the rough or trees.

I may have mentioned before that the only time that our group was held up was when the ladies in front were deciding on a ruling on an air shot on the wrong ball.......