Bunkers - New Rule 12

[Deleted member 16999]

At the England Golf presentation were informed:
Under new Rule 12, players will be allowed to touch or move loose impediments in a bunker, such as such as stones, leaves, twigs, pine cones etc and will be generally allowed to touch the sand with a hand or club.

However:
There would still be a one stroke penalty if in removing the loose impediment, the ball moved. The ball must be replaced. (No change in the Rules).

Currently we have a local rule:
Stones in Bunkers are moveable obstructions. Rule 24-1 applies.

Therefore to avoid people being penalised under New Rule 12 am I right in thinking we will still need a local rule 15.2a to cover our existing local rule?

 

[Colin L]

I understand from various people that the R&A will not approve a Local Rule deeming stones to be movable obstructions, but I can't give a reference to an actual statement by the R&A to that effect.

 

[jim8flog]

Stones bunkers are now loose impediments and cannot be classified as movable obstructions.

I have already queried the change with the R&A on safety grounds and they have confirmed that the new rule change will stand on the basis that it is no different to your ball being against a stone in the general area.

Therefore the local rule has to be deleted.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Stones bunkers are now loose impediments and cannot be classified as movable obstructions.

I have already queried the change with the R&A on safety grounds and they have confirmed that the new rule change will stand on the basis that it is no different to your ball being against a stone in the general area.

Therefore the local rule has to be deleted.

Thank you, did you get confirmation by email or text? If so, could I have a copy please.

 

[rulefan]

I understand from various people that the R&A will not approve a Local Rule deeming stones to be movable obstructions, but I can't give a reference to an actual statement by the R&A to that effect.

It has been reported on a number of other sites but I can't be sure I have seen a definitive statement from the R&A/USGA

 

[jim8flog]

Thank you, did you get confirmation by email or text? If so, could I have a copy please.

The reply was by email.

Sorry it has been deleted as I had asked the question quite a few weeks ago.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The reply was by email.

Sorry it has been deleted as I had asked the question quite a few weeks ago.

No problem

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm having a mind melt with this. The first statement sounds as though you can move stones in a bunker. The follow up posts say you can't.

Stones bunkers are now loose impediments and cannot be classified as movable obstructions.

I thought these changes were meant to make life easier? Discuss, when is a movable object actually a loose impediment? Blimey.

and will be generally allowed to touch the sand with a hand or club.

That sounds like a licence for some people to ground their club. I know it doesn't but why create ambiguity when there was none before.

Apologies if this is going over ground well covered before but these bite sized threads are bringing out changes that I had not fully understood. Based on the chatter from other golfers in previous weeks out on the course and in the bar, I am not alone.

 

[rulefan]

Stones bunkers are now loose impediments and cannot be classified as movable obstructions

Stones have always been Loose Impediments (LI) by definition. LIs could not be moved if they were in the same bunker (or water hazard) as the ball. However a Local Rule could be made deeming stones in bunkers to be Movable Obstructions (MO).

See the definitions of Loose Impediments & Movable Obstructions. LIs are 'natural', MOs are 'artificial'.

From 2019, stones will still be LIs wherever they are.
If the player's ball is in a bunker he may move both MOs and LIs in the bunker.
However,
if the ball moves when moving a MO, the player is not penalised
if the ball moves when moving an LI, the player gets a 1 stroke penalty

The RBs have announced that a committee may not make a local rule deeming stones to be movable obstructions.
This produces consistency around the whole course.

and will be generally allowed to touch the sand with a hand or club

That sounds like a licence for some people to ground their club.

Restrictions on Touching Sand in Bunker
(1) When Touching Sand Results in Penalty. Before making a stroke at a ball in a bunker, a player must not:

• Deliberately touch sand in the bunker with a hand, club, rake or other object to test the condition of the sand to learn information for the next stroke, or
• Touch sand in the bunker with a club:
• • In the area right in front of or right behind the ball (except as allowed under Rule 7.1a in fairly searching for a ball or under Rule 12.2a in removing a loose impediment or movable obstruction),
  • In making a practice swing, or
  • In making the backswing for a stroke.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Have no problem with RB making that announcement, I’d just like to see the announcement in writing.

 

[Crow]

RB?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ruling Bodies

 

[Crow]

Ruling Bodies

Cheers.

 

[Imurg]

Stones have always been Loose Impediments (LI) by definition. LIs could not be moved if they were in the same bunker (or water hazard) as the ball. However a Local Rule could be made deeming stones in bunkers to be Movable Obstructions (MO).

See the definitions of Loose Impediments & Movable Obstructions. LIs are 'natural', MOs are 'artificial'.

From 2019, stones will still be LIs wherever they are.
If the player's ball is in a bunker he may move both MOs and LIs in the bunker.
However,
if the ball moves when moving a MO, the player is not penalised
if the ball moves when moving an LI, the player gets a 1 stroke penalty

The RBs have announced that a committee may not make a local rule deeming stones to be movable obstructions.
This produces consistency around the whole course.



Restrictions on Touching Sand in Bunker
(1) When Touching Sand Results in Penalty. Before making a stroke at a ball in a bunker, a player must not:

• Deliberately touch sand in the bunker with a hand, club, rake or other object to test the condition of the sand to learn information for the next stroke, or
• Touch sand in the bunker with a club:
• • In the area right in front of or right behind the ball (except as allowed under Rule 7.1a in fairly searching for a ball or under Rule 12.2a in removing a loose impediment or movable obstruction),
  • In making a practice swing, or
  • In making the backswing for a stroke.

So, previously, if my ball came to rest in a bunker alongside a stone, as long as there was a LR allowing it, I could move said stone as a movable obstruction and get to replace the ball with no penalty if it moved.
In the same scenario with the new rule I can move the stone as a LI but if the ball moves I have to replace it with a penalty....

Are the R&A in league with sand wedge manufacturers?

 

[rulefan]

Imurg

You are correct but does a small pebble really cause more than a superficial scratch to a piece of steel? And would it really affect the playability?

 

[Imurg]

Imurg

You are correct but does a small pebble really cause more than a superficial scratch to a piece of steel? And would it really affect the playability?

Possibly not but not all stones in bunkers are small pebbles..

 

[rulefan]

On which courses do you encounter large pebbles? Perhaps you had strayed onto the adjacent beach.

 

[cliveb]

While I understand the rationale of being consistent and making stones LIs throughout the course, I do have a real issue with this.

Q. What was the purpose of the old local rule making stones MOs in bunkers?
A. It was a SAFETY issue - a small stone flying out of a bunker could take someone's eye out.

But this new rule means that if your ball is in a bunker against a stone, then because you know you'll be penalised if the ball moves, you will leave the stone there and it'll come flying out when when play your shot. Therefore this change in rules is compromising safety, and I don't see how that can be justified.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Found this on the LPGA website:

Loose impediments (like stones, leaves, twigs and acorns) in a bunker
may now be removed or touched without penalty, provided the ball does not move. If the ball moves as a result, there is a one stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced. Hence, a Local Rule for Stones in Bunkers will no longer be used since the new Rule allows stones in bunkers to be moved without penalty.

 

[jim8flog]

While I understand the rationale of being consistent and making stones LIs throughout the course, I do have a real issue with this.

Q. What was the purpose of the old local rule making stones MOs in bunkers?
A. It was a SAFETY issue - a small stone flying out of a bunker could take someone's eye out.

But this new rule means that if your ball is in a bunker against a stone, then because you know you'll be penalised if the ball moves, you will leave the stone there and it'll come flying out when when play your shot. Therefore this change in rules is compromising safety, and I don't see how that can be justified.

This is the exact point I made when I queried the new rule with the R&A, as said, they assessed it was no different to your ball being against a stone in the general area.

Looks like we all ought to carry safety goggles in the bag.