bunker question

[spudgun007]

last Sunday, one of our players tried to play out of a large bunker, the ball hit the lip and came to rest back in the bunker. about 5 feet to his left, he proceeded to smooth the sand were he had played his first shot, using his club. with the ball still being in a different part of athe hazzard is this a penalty. he did get the ball out at the next attempt.
I cannot find a rule regarding this in the R & A rule book if there is one can anyone tell me what it is

yours in sport
Mike

 

[brendy]

Good question, Id only be assuming that he is testing the sand/conditions.

 

[StuartD]

Surely he has already tested the sand/conditions when playing his first shot.

I could be wrong here but i don't think there would be a penalty. he would only be penalised if he failed to get out of the bunker with his second shot and it came back and landed in his previously raked area and as a result he has improved his lie.

Could be wrong.

 

[stevo]

This happened to me recently in a friendly game with another member and i was told this would normally incur a penalty stoke.Apparently i would have classed as testing the hazard..

 

[USER1999]

No, you can't do this.

 

[Boabski]

there was a recent post about this when i think Jim Furyk had to penalised because he pitched out a bunker and into another and because his caddy raked the initial bunker he was in,deeming him testing the surface

 

[spudgun007]

found this in the R & A rule book do you think this answers my question

After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been
lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard,
the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is
done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is
outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil
in the hazard without restriction

 

[surefire]

Does it not make a difference that he used his club though?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Good point surefire.

Club or rake - does it make any difference??

 

[RGuk]

Hmmm, rules aside.....I'd never touch the sand if my ball hadn't made it out.....quite how the rules "allow" you to "smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is
done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to (the) next stroke" is beyond me!!!
This is certainly testing the sand more so than the bizarre raking thing that we talked about some time back.

i.m.o. the rules don't need to be complicated on this, but since you can be judged to have tested the sand by raking over a previous bunker on single hole, we seem a bit snookered.

Good question.....

 

[vig]

It has to be a penalty

 

[andiritchie]

yeah its a penalty shot it happened to stuart cink a few weeeks ago

 

[theeaglehunter]

what I don't understand is why would you want to do this, it is obviously going to be something that is likely to be against the rules so why risk it? I am by no means a rules expert so anything that I think could end up giving me an unfair advantage I make extra sure I do not do, just to be on the safe side.

 

[vig]

Ditto!
If it seems to be not right, it probably isn't so no point taking a risk.
I have even played out of small holes (rabbit scratchings) on the fairways because I wasn't sure but apparently you get free relief from them

 

[teetime72]

You may touch the sand after a failed shot,providing you do not improve your lie.

 

[rgs]

The Stewart Cink incident was looked at after the event by the R&A and they issue a direction on it:
heres the decision:
Rule 13-4a prohibits a player from testing the condition of the hazard in which his ball lies or a similar hazard. Yet Exception 3 to the Rule, which was introduced in 2008, allows a player to test the condition of one hazard after playing from that hazard into a similar hazard. Although Decision 13-4/0.5 lists smoothing a bunker with a rake, club or otherwise as an example of testing the condition of the hazard, the Etiquette Section of the Rules of Golf provides that “Before leaving a bunker, players should carefully fill up and smooth over all holes and footprints made by them and any nearby made by others.”

It is not the intent of Rule 13-4a to prohibit players from practicing the proper etiquette of the game when more than one bunker is involved. Therefore, when the player’s ball lies in a bunker, it would not be a breach of the Rules if the player were to smooth the sand in another bunker, provided (a) the smoothing is for the purpose of tidying up the bunker, (b) the smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 (Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play) with respect to his next stroke and (c) there is not a reasonable possibility that the smoothing could affect a subsequent stroke by the player.

If the player were to smooth sand in the bunker in which his ball lies prior to making his first stroke in that bunker, he would be in breach of Rule 13-4a.

While the JRC does not normally make public the results of its deliberations outside the updates of the Decisions on the Rules of Golf every two years and the Rules of Golf every four years, The R&A and the USGA do informally answer questions about the Rules of Golf as those questions arise.

Questions have arisen in connection with a recent ruling involving Stewart Cink at the Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In that situation, the player incurred a penalty for smoothing sand in a bunker from which he had not made a stroke, when his ball lay in another bunker -- a ruling that followed the USGA’s Rules of Golf Committee’s position at that time. To avoid such an act being a breach of the Rules in the future, the JRC has decided to make public its agreed position on smoothing a similar hazard.

 

[madandra]

Clear as mud

 

[Timberbonce]

I think i'll just avoid the bunkers

 

[StuartD]

Was the Stuart Cink incident not different as he was not actually in the bunker that his caddy raked. His feet were only in the bunker not the ball.

 

[viscount17]

logic says that if the ball is still in the bunker leave any smoothing until it's out. it could be argued (by the awkward squad) that by smoothing the sand he was preparing the lie for his next, possible, mis-stroke.

the cink decision only allows you to smooth a bunker from which you have already played.

have to admit that the whole of that 13 - ruling is a perfect example of the poor wording that makes all the rule questions necessary (jobs for the boys?)