Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just reading that France are going to vote against another Brexit extension

Let's just check what Le Drian said...

In a sign of rising exasperation, the French foreign minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, highlighted the lack of realistic proposals being put forward by Downing Street as an alternative to the Irish backstop.

“It’s very worrying. The British must tell us what they want,” Le Drian said.

When asked if an extension beyond 31 October was possible, Le Drian said the EU’s patience was waning. “We are not going to do this [extend the deadline] every three months,” the French minister added. The Benn bill, due to receive royal assent this week, would extend the UK’s membership until 31 January 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/france-threatens-to-veto-further-brexit-extension

So unless Le Drian (or another French minister) said something in addition to that reported in my link - and if he did please can I have a link to it - I am struggling to reconcile what he said with a conclusion that he has said that France will vote against a request for an extension to 31st January 2020.

 

[Old Skier]

Let's just check what Le Drian said...

In a sign of rising exasperation, the French foreign minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, highlighted the lack of realist being put forward by Downing Street as an alternative to the Irish backstop.

“It’s very worrying. The British must tell us what they want,” Le Drian said.

When asked if an extension beyond 31 October was possible, Le Drian said the EU’s patience was waning. “We are not going to do this [extend the deadline] every three months,” the French minister added. The Benn bill, due to receive royal assent this week, would extend the UK’s membership until 31 January 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/france-threatens-to-veto-further-brexit-extension

So unless Le Drian (or another French minister) said something in addition to that reported in my link - and if he did please can I have a link to it - I am struggling to reconcile what he said with a conclusion that he has said that France will vote against a request for an extension to 31st January 2020.

You could always have this take on it https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/no-c...t-delay-as-things-stand-france-says-10705599/

 

[Fade and Die]

You could always this take on it https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/no-c...t-delay-as-things-stand-france-says-10705599/

In the words of Montgomery Burns...Excellent!

 

[Old Skier]

In the words of Montgomery Burns...Excellent!

Won't do any good

 

[Beezerk]

Let's just check what Le Drian said...

In a sign of rising exasperation, the French foreign minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, highlighted the lack of realistic proposals being put forward by Downing Street as an alternative to the Irish backstop.

“It’s very worrying. The British must tell us what they want,” Le Drian said.

When asked if an extension beyond 31 October was possible, Le Drian said the EU’s patience was waning. “We are not going to do this [extend the deadline] every three months,” the French minister added. The Benn bill, due to receive royal assent this week, would extend the UK’s membership until 31 January 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/france-threatens-to-veto-further-brexit-extension

So unless Le Drian (or another French minister) said something in addition to that reported in my link - and if he did please can I have a link to it - I am struggling to reconcile what he said with a conclusion that he has said that France will vote against a request for an extension to 31st January 2020.

Crikey I was just making conversation, I didn't realise every word you type on here is forensically investigated, and I also needed to post at least three documents which back up my statement

 

[chrisd]

Slow learner Beezerk ?

You know you're not going to get off lightly if a post is pro Brexit

 

[Tashyboy]

Crikey I was just making conversation, I didn't realise every word you type on here is forensically investigated, and I also needed to post at least three documents which back up my statement

Yeah we need 3 documents to prove your knee is knackered. your belly aching and pain don't count 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Beezerk]

Yeah we need 3 documents to prove your knee is knackered. your belly aching and pain don't count 🤣🤣🤣🤣

🤣🤣🤣

 

[BubbaP]

.....
From my point of view, when we leave the EU, especially, but not exclusively, if we do so without a deal, the costs of trade between the UK and the EU will increase. Whether it's through tariffs, non-tariff barriers, or simple red tape, costs will rise. That in itself will reduce profits, business activity growth and national economic growth below the level it would otherwise have been. I can't see any alternative to that logic.
......

Was a big post, so clipped out this part.

Largely agree, however, and this is something I don't see being discussed in HOC or media;- Surely the "no deal" position isn't a fixed position for evermore.
As others have said, maybe with all the posturing and "lines" on both sides perhaps the easiest way to hammer something out is from the default WTO position.
I don't know, but may warrant some discussion.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You could always have this take on it https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/08/no-c...t-delay-as-things-stand-france-says-10705599/

Does the French Foreign Minister have a say in it ?

Wasn’t there also the same sort of story before the last deadline as well

The EU will say a lot but will happily extend because they keep getting money into their coffers

 

[Old Skier]

Does the French Foreign Minister have a say in it ?

Wasn’t there also the same sort of story before the last deadline as well

The EU will say a lot but will happily extend because they keep getting money into their coffers

Who knows but it is doing the rounds in the media both sides of the channel so hopefully some clarity on the matter will come winging its way from the EU.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Does the French Foreign Minister have a say in it ?

Wasn’t there also the same sort of story before the last deadline as well

The EU will say a lot but will happily extend because they keep getting money into their coffers

Do we actually have any say in it? We are currently in their club, their club has said we're out on the 31st of October; what effect will a bill passed in our Parliament have of the rules of their club?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Do we actually have any say in it? We are currently in their club, their club has said we're out on the 31st of October; what effect will a bill passed in our Parliament have of the rules of their club?

Who the hell knows these days - it’s one of the rich exclusive clubs where if enough money is placed on the table it will talk , ignoring the common man outside the club

 

[drdel]

IMO the 'sign' or not sign challenge brought by the MPs against the government is a bit meaningless to the long term.

Surely everyone in the EU knows the PM has been forced to follow the new law and will do his best to frustrate its impact (possibly helped by the brexit party supporters in now in Brussels. Why would they put much reliance on what was agreed prior to an election because laws can be changed revoked etc. The Federalists must know that the UK staying in the EU will disrupt such a timetable and frustrate the smooth running. Macron especially wants to centralise, if I were he, I'd kick us out.

 

[Foxholer]

Do we actually have any say in it? We are currently in their club, their club has said we're out on the 31st of October; what effect will a bill passed in our Parliament have of the rules of their club?

We (Boris) can ask them to extend. And if they approve, then (perhaps) fine and a 'better' deal could be ngotiated. If not then Boris can smile as he reports back their refusal!

 

[Hobbit]

IMO the 'sign' or not sign challenge brought by the MPs against the government is a bit meaningless to the long term.

Surely everyone in the EU knows the PM has been forced to follow the new law and will do his best to frustrate its impact (possibly helped by the brexit party supporters in now in Brussels. Why would they put much reliance on what was agreed prior to an election because laws can be changed revoked etc. The Federalists must know that the UK staying in the EU will disrupt such a timetable and frustrate the smooth running. Macron especially wants to centralise, if I were he, I'd kick us out.

You can have as many Brexit supporters in Brussels as you like and it won't make a blind bit of difference to how the EU operates or whether laws are passed. Laws there aren't made on the shop floor, and none of the shop floor workers get to propose laws. Everything comes from the EU Commission, made up of 28 commissioners. And the qualified majority rules mean that there isn't the need anymore for unanimous votes.

For all the bleating about federalism and centralising power away from the member states, its even happening in the EU Parliament with the limited powers of MEP's becoming even more limited.

 

[Hitdaball]

Perhaps you can help me out further. I really can't be bothered to read each and every link people post here to support their position. Please just tell me, as a retiree on a (slightly enhanced) state pension, in what way will this benefit me. several millions like me, and the country as a whole, in the short and long term?

It would mean rich folk would have to pay more tax in the countries in which they earn money which would then contribute more to the state funds so that better services for pensioners can be provided, even if those same pensioners seemingly can’t be arsed to read up and understand it.

 

[Old Skier]

It would mean rich folk would have to pay more tax in the countries in which they earn money which would then contribute more to the state funds so that better services for pensioners can be provided, even if those same pensioners seemingly can’t be arsed to read up and understand it.

Define rich. I'm not rich living in this country but I would be considered well of in many EU countries.

 

[Hitdaball]

Define rich. I'm not rich living in this country but I would be considered well of in many EU countries.

Lest say net wealth in excess of £2m. Or you just pick a number. Enough money that paying clever weasels to find ways of squirrelling money and profits away from taxation is an option and feasible. The sort of thing that JRM and Arron Banks do. For instance.

 

[Mudball]

Why?

Otherwise how do you resolve this mess?? GE is unlikely to give a clear mandate, WA is opposed by MPs, Now the EU say no to an extension (about time) .. so the only option is no deal (which no remainer and some leavers don’t want)

Only another ref will give you a clear mandate ...