Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Old Skier]

No there’s only the original dogs dinner deal on the table as the EU won’t renegotiate

But there was an agreement that there would be no major changes on trade and travel until Dec 2020.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Compare and Contract Mark Rutte (Netherlands PM) interview on BBC this morning with Dave Davies (ex Brexit Sec and A.B.deP supporter) interview on LBC (both actually worth a listen).

Mark Rutte - frankly and seriously setting out an EU stance - Hard Brexit means Hard Brexit plus no changes to the WA but possible changes to side agreement if UK alters position on one or more of May's Red Lines - and expressing great disappointment we are leaving, but confusion and frankly disbelief over what UK really now wants out of negotiations and what UK expects to be able to achieve after a No Deal Brexit as a country of 65m as opposed to being part of a grouping of 500m (well he would wouldn't he)

Dave Davies - breezy insouciance and optimistic assertions about same - on basis of what those such as Rutte say is all part of the EU's Project Fear; and that big business and financial services organisations will obviously be against a No Deal exit because they are only interested in this and next years results - not the glittering prizes out there for future business and us all.

Just as well we have such such as Davies supporting A.B.deP candidature for PM as we all look to said candidate entering the negotiations and taking us out on 31/10. And even although A.B.deP didn't say as much in the last debate - Davies tells us the A.B.deP will be taking the UK out of the EU on the 31/10 - and not one day later. That's the sort of firm leadership and straight speaking we need.

 

[Hobbit]

Compare and Contract Mark Rutte (Netherlands PM) interview on BBC this morning with Dave Davies (ex Brexit Sec and A.B.deP supporter) interview on LBC (both actually worth a listen).

Mark Rutte - frankly and seriously setting out an EU stance - Hard Brexit means Hard Brexit plus no changes to the WA but possible changes to side agreement if UK alters position on one or more of May's Red Lines - and expressing great disappointment we are leaving, but confusion and frankly disbelief over what UK really now wants out of negotiations and what UK expects to be able to achieve after a No Deal Brexit as a country of 65m as opposed to being part of a grouping of 500m (well he would wouldn't he)

Dave Davies - breezy insouciance and optimistic assertions about same - on basis of what those such as Rutte say is all part of the EU's Project Fear; and that big business and financial services organisations will obviously be against a No Deal exit because they are only interested in this and next years results - not the glittering prizes out there for future business and us all.

Just as well we have such such as Davies supporting A.B.deP candidature for PM as we all look to said candidate entering the negotiations and taking us out on 31/10. And even although A.B.deP didn't say as much in the last debate - Davies tells us the A.B.deP will be taking the UK out of the EU on the 31/10 - and not one day later. That's the sort of firm leadership and straight speaking we need.

Rutte spoke a lot of sense, and a fair bit of rubbish. Add in the political posturing and what do you have? He's still right, in my eyes, in terms of is Brexit good or bad but beyond that its mainly waffle.

But here's a thought on one of his points, that of how big the EU is compared to the UK. There are only 5 net contributors to the EU, and some of those contribute next to nothing. In terms of what the others add to the whole concept, very little but they take plenty. Whilst Germany, France, Italy and Ireland try and balance the 14% loss of budget that the other 23 countries have said they won't contribute to or take less from, and from a budget that is supposed to be increasing above the GDP growth of the EU 27.

One of the predictions is it will push Ireland seriously into recession. Add all the other countries that are on the cusp of recession... The Germany's and France's won't suffer much but if they are expecting any help in the other countries.... The UK will suffer but if you think the majority of the EU will be in a position to make life difficult for the UK, or ease the burden on the EU budget you are deluded.

 

[drdel]

Rutte spoke a lot of sense, and a fair bit of rubbish. Add in the political posturing and what do you have? He's still right, in my eyes, in terms of is Brexit good or bad but beyond that its mainly waffle.

But here's a thought on one of his points, that of how big the EU is compared to the UK. There are only 5 net contributors to the EU, and some of those contribute next to nothing. In terms of what the others add to the whole concept, very little but they take plenty. Whilst Germany, France, Italy and Ireland try and balance the 14% loss of budget that the other 23 countries have said they won't contribute to or take less from, and from a budget that is supposed to be increasing above the GDP growth of the EU 27.

One of the predictions is it will push Ireland seriously into recession. Add all the other countries that are on the cusp of recession... The Germany's and France's won't suffer much but if they are expecting any help in the other countries.... The UK will suffer but if you think the majority of the EU will be in a position to make life difficult for the UK, or ease the burden on the EU budget you are deluded.

Perhaps they are hope Nicola S (and DfT) will ride to their rescue when she gets Scotland its independence and returns to the EU bearing gifts the like of which they have not seen with a ready supply of 'chips-on-shoulder' !!!

The sad fact is that Brussels, and Barneir, (hoping for Junckers job) in particular are so intent on demonstrating to any other member the problem of leaving that they have completely ignored the economic impact on the member states.

 

[IanM]

Mmmm New Brexit Party MEPs getting banned for filming the lobster lunches and Mercs coming their way....watch this space

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Mmmm New Brexit Party MEPs getting banned for filming the lobster lunches and Mercs coming their way....watch this space

link please?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Conservative and 'Unionist' Party in Scotland's 'Dark Money' guy listed as a tax cheat by HMRC.
Everyone in Scotland gobsmacked.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...chief-listed-by-hmrc-as-tax-cheat/?ref=twtrec

 

[Mudball]

From Twitter...
Since the #Brexit vote, the EU has agreed trade deals with:
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam


That = 500,000,000 people.

Since the Brexit vote, Britain has agreed trade deals with:
1. The Faroe Islands

That = 50k people

 

[Old Skier]

From Twitter...
Since the #Brexit vote, the EU has agreed trade deals with:
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam


That = 500,000,000 people.

Since the Brexit vote, Britain has agreed trade deals with:
1. The Faroe Islands

That = 50k people

Strange, BBC showing 11 with another in the pipeline.

 

[Old Skier]

Some may even say it's better than 11 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

 

[Fade and Die]

From Twitter...
Since the #Brexit vote, the EU has agreed trade deals with:
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam


That = 500,000,000 people.

Since the Brexit vote, Britain has agreed trade deals with:
1. The Faroe Islands

That = 50k people

And the reason they won’t agree one with the UK?

 

[Old Skier]

And the reason they won’t agree one with the UK?

He's quoted countries that are grouped together and if he reads the BBC link will notice that the same has happened in the U.K. negotiations.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

And the reason they won’t agree one with the UK?

Is that a handful Tory MP's failed to endorse PM May's deal.

Is that the right answer.

 

[Fade and Die]

Is that a handful Tory MP's failed to endorse PM May's deal.

Is that the right answer.

Have another guess.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And the reason they won’t agree one with the UK?

We can't agree any deal whilst still a member of the EU. It's a non argument.

 

[Fade and Die]

Have another guess.

Here’s a clue....

In 2016, Michel Barnier said: “I’ll have done my job, if, in the end, the deal is so tough on the British that they’d prefer to stay in the EU.”

 

[Fade and Die]

We can't agree any deal whilst still a member of the EU. It's a non argument.

I was asking why the E.U. will not do a deal with us.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I was asking why the E.U. will not do a deal with us.

They said they will not talk trade until the first phase has been agreed. TM agreed to that. I believe David Davies was very anti this decision as Brexit secretary.

If we have left by Oct 31st then we can talk trade the day after leaving. I suspect a lot has already been agreed behind the scenes, I would hope so anyway, so it should hopefully happen quite quickly.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

O

Here’s a clue....

In 2016, Michel Barnier said: “I’ll have done my job, if, in the end, the deal is so tough on the British that they’d prefer to stay in the EU.”

Or Michel, the UK could leave with no deal agreed and it will be carnage for all parties. Great negotiation 👍

 

[SocketRocket]

If we accept the Withdraw Agreement then it will leave us rolled over on our backs having committed to the £35 Billion, backstop, alignment on tarriffs, and they will want full access to fishing in our waters, open immigration, euro court having presidence etc. Stitched up with nothing to bargain with. We need to walk away from the current deal and use the £39billion and no deal as our bargaining chip.