SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Would you expect 2.5 billion investment in the car industry every year?
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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robinthehood
Hacker
It's the lowest on record .
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I get the feeling he is not being very clever and is being manipulated by the EU Brexit team. He has the gun leveled at his own foot and is ignoring suggestions telling him to put it down.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
The car industry worldwide is experiencing a sales downturn, the EU has enforced new emission testing, there is the current concern over the way governments may penalise diesel engines and there is no doubt that project fear has affected purchasing decisions. Not really surprising investment has seen a fall off.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
I dont comment on Irish issue as i cant say i know the history and culture involved. However, i have plenty of mates who were deployed there and none of them ever want to go back on active duty.
Can someone help me with why Varadkar is not being mindful of his own country.
1) He is part of the EU and is deeply entrenched in its success. he even uses the Euro. He is part of a club and has to follow its rules
2) His countrymen and NI worked hard to avoid a hard border and any physical infrastructure. However as a trading outpost of the EU, he needs a mechanism to ensure things are checked before they enter the EU (not just ROI). He probably has a legal obligation to do so. Would you be happy if cheap paracetamol or baby food from Iran ended up in Boots via Turkey-Bulgaria on a truck?
3) Some of the current land borders like Norway-Sweden, Swiz-France are easier as Norway and Swiz have bilateral relationships and allow freedom of movement. In our case we want to eat our cake and not allow freedom of movement for people but want freedom of goods.
4) Finally, ROI was not part of the referendum and last time i checked NI voted to remain.
So why are we making this a Varadkar problem rather than solve the mess we created in the first place.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
There is a very simple solution that we can do and win immediately. On 1st April after we overthrow the yoke of subsistence, Westminister should announce an immediate reduction in the level of testing for new Diesel. We should roll back to Euro 2 levels and call it something like Brit 5. This should be introduced along with subsidy on new made-in-Britian Diesel car along with a scrappage allowance for anything built in Europe. In one sweep, we will give the whole British car industry an immediate shot in the arm. JLR will be back and running... Nissan will be back in Sunderland before tea.
Now here is a concrete proposal on how to make Britain great again.. Your move Jeremy
It is partly a Varadkar problem because by not budging he is ensuring a hard border, the very thing he states not to want. There doesn't need to be a lot of movement but there needs to be some. If he doesn't compromise somewhere we have a hard border, by demand of the EU. There are enough politicians in the UK willing to go to No Deal over issues that are not related to Ireland that either he and the EU compromises or he will need to set up border posts on his side of the line because the EU state there has to be some to collect the taxes.
To remove a hard border, you need an element of customs union or agreement. The EU will not give that without preventing the UK from having trade agreements outside of the EU. Maybe they will have to allow us to do deals but charge us a bit more for the privelege. We get punished by having to pay more, no border required. All parties happy. For this to happen the EU need to give a little.
NI voted to remain but as the DUP keep reminding anyone who will listen, they are part of the UK and the UK voted to leave. If they want to stay.............that is a whole other issue and one for the people of NI and Eire alone.
ROI didn't vote but the border is where it is, the organisation they are part of are insisting on a deal that would never be acceptable. No point in them stamping their feet over it. How do you make the best of the situation? To get to that point a little more movement is going to be required, not just more of the same.
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Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Maybe the Government could offer Northern Ireland a referendum on reunification with the South, with question something like,
Tick one box:
1. Remain in Union with UK and agree to a hard border if necessary
Or
2. Reunite with Southern Ireland and avoid necessity for hard border
Tick one box:
1. Remain in Union with UK and agree to a hard border if necessary
Or
2. Reunite with Southern Ireland and avoid necessity for hard border
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I wonder why the EU just doesn't say, " We aren't changing the backstop part of the agreement so U.K. will have to leave under no deal".
Or is it really obvious.
Or is it really obvious.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Really!!.. If you go and get a pint from your 'local' which till yesterday was your local, but today happens to be in a different arrangement - it is still classified as Freedom of moment. I can talk about foreign technolgy workers who could not legally work in ROI but had UK visas so used outsourcing bases in Belfast..
Countries like Norway and Swiss allow free movement in exchange of no hard border and some sort of customs union. In the days of yore, people needed a Swiss visas to travel to CH even if they had a valid Schengen visa for Europe. However, this has now gone away as Swiss is covered under Schengen now.
BTW, What is the compromise that UK is offering in this deal? Maybe i have missed a memo somewhere
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Love it.. But as one of the N Irish girls on the team once mentioned, we are more like to team up with the Scots and demand freedom than unite with the south!! I would take that with a pinch of salt (and lime and Tequila)
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
People from the ROI have always had freedom of movement in the UK and will continue to have it.
The compromise the UK is offering is a deal rather than no-deal which will be catastrophic to Ireland. With a little bit of trust on both sides and a will to introduce a frictionless border which is not that difficult we could all get on with our lives.
Make no doubt about it Brussels are the puppet masters in this and pulling the strings so that Varadkar jumps to their tune.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'm pretty sure NI would opt for selection 1! Being part of UK being a higher priority than being part of EU.
But it's not just NI that needs to be consulted in Irish matters! The Republic of Ireland also has a distinct interest!
Personally, I'm a great admirer of the concept written into the Good Friday all being Irish, so would welcome unification. But I don't believe now is an appropriate time for it!
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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Ah, the EU and it's Borders... it actually does what it likes!
I made the point a day or two ago (which was misunderstood/but probably ignored as recipient didnt like it) about one country having an open border on one side and a closed border to another EU country on the other... just to make a political point... about 200 miles apart. And road traffic cross between Russia and EU states all day every day.
Just label it "Brexit Derail Attempt 4534"
Someone remind me of where most Irish exports go?
I made the point a day or two ago (which was misunderstood/but probably ignored as recipient didnt like it) about one country having an open border on one side and a closed border to another EU country on the other... just to make a political point... about 200 miles apart. And road traffic cross between Russia and EU states all day every day.
Just label it "Brexit Derail Attempt 4534"
Someone remind me of where most Irish exports go?
Mudball
Assistant Pro
How will ROI citizens have a continued FOM into NI or GB when we leave? Are the not governed by the same restrictions on FOM that we are putting on all EU nationals? Or are we going to tier EU nationals on the basis of their country of origin .. So you are welcome if your Burgandy coloured passport is ROI, French or German but if it is issued by Eastern Europe then you are not welcome? If the EU signs up to that, then it is surely the end of EU. And good luck with that standing up to scrutiny in the ECJ - but then we dont want anything to do with the ECJ either.
BTW, I have still no idea what compromise the UK is offering.. saying that our compromise is that we will do a deal instead of a no-deal is not a compromise. Also saying it hurt Ireland less is not a compromise either. Back to the point.. If you want the EU to compromise, then offer a (proper) compromise... Lets not just blame others... its a negotiation, then negotiate .. dont just find excuses.
There is a nice 5 bed house coming up for sale. Absolutely perfect for us.. good location, school, land, garage, the works. It is on the market for 2.5m. I know the guy very well, he will do a deal for 2.2... I have only 250K, i now hate my friend as he wont take the offer. He is an absolute loser.
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If you want to know why Varadkar is playing hard ball have a look at both the balance of trade and the % of trade between Ireland and the UK. A No Deal or hard border risks putting Ireland back into recession.
As to his own popularity and that of Fine Gael, again its worth a look to see how he is perceived in his own country.
Look beyond Brexit for some indicators on why Varadkar is being a awkward. Also, why are the UK letting him get away with it? The damage to Ireland's economy would be catastrophic... tell him to behave or else, which is basically what he's telling the UK with all his new found mates in Brussels behind him.
As to his own popularity and that of Fine Gael, again its worth a look to see how he is perceived in his own country.
Look beyond Brexit for some indicators on why Varadkar is being a awkward. Also, why are the UK letting him get away with it? The damage to Ireland's economy would be catastrophic... tell him to behave or else, which is basically what he's telling the UK with all his new found mates in Brussels behind him.
Ireland and the UK have had a common travel agreement since long before the EU was even a twinkle in someone's eye. That agreement has never been superseded by an EU treaty and has been said by both the UK and Ireland that it will be honoured post-Brexit.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Wouldn’t be surprised if Nissan said to the Japanese government they were worried, the EU saw an opportunity and did a deal.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
The deal was already being negotiated prior to the Brexit vote but was pushed to the front of the queue after Brexit vote. To be fair, the Japanese PM/President, whatever he is, also offered the UK membership of the pan-asiatic trading bloc.
It doesn't give the Japan access into the EU via the UK, which they've sorted via the trade deal, but it does give the UK access to the fastest growing trading bloc in the world since BRIC(Brazil/Russia/India/China) stuttered.
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