Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[SocketRocket]

How will ROI citizens have a continued FOM into NI or GB when we leave? Are the not governed by the same restrictions on FOM that we are putting on all EU nationals? Or are we going to tier EU nationals on the basis of their country of origin .. So you are welcome if your Burgandy coloured passport is ROI, French or German but if it is issued by Eastern Europe then you are not welcome? If the EU signs up to that, then it is surely the end of EU. And good luck with that standing up to scrutiny in the ECJ - but then we dont want anything to do with the ECJ either.


BTW, I have still no idea what compromise the UK is offering.. saying that our compromise is that we will do a deal instead of a no-deal is not a compromise. Also saying it hurt Ireland less is not a compromise either. Back to the point.. If you want the EU to compromise, then offer a (proper) compromise... Lets not just blame others... its a negotiation, then negotiate .. dont just find excuses.

There is a nice 5 bed house coming up for sale. Absolutely perfect for us.. good location, school, land, garage, the works. It is on the market for 2.5m. I know the guy very well, he will do a deal for 2.2... I have only 250K, i now hate my friend as he wont take the offer. He is an absolute loser.

Read up on The Common Travel Area which has given Irish Republic Citizens the right to reside in the UK since the formation of the ROI. The same rights are a available to residents of the UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man.

Below a clip from the Gov website.

Irish citizens automatically have a right to reside in the UK as part of the common travel area. If you were habitually resident in Ireland or any of the other places in the common travel area before you came to the UK, you will automatically satisfy the conditions of the HRT.
However, if you come to the UK from a country outside the common travel area, you will have to prove you're habitually resident here to meet those conditions. As with UK citizens returning from abroad, from 1 January 2014 you cannot satisfy the HRT in order to claim income-based jobseeker's allowance until you have been living in the UK for at least three months.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone know where Nissan's £ 80,000,000.00, bribe is going to be spent now?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Really!!.. If you go and get a pint from your 'local' which till yesterday was your local, but today happens to be in a different arrangement - it is still classified as Freedom of moment. I can talk about foreign technolgy workers who could not legally work in ROI but had UK visas so used outsourcing bases in Belfast..

Countries like Norway and Swiss allow free movement in exchange of no hard border and some sort of customs union. In the days of yore, people needed a Swiss visas to travel to CH even if they had a valid Schengen visa for Europe. However, this has now gone away as Swiss is covered under Schengen now.

BTW, What is the compromise that UK is offering in this deal? Maybe i have missed a memo somewhere

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean movement as in freedom of movement, I meant movement as in compromise, move in their stance.

How has the UK compromised? To be honest this has gone on for so long that I've lost track of details but I'm pretty sure we've been well squeezed along the way. We will also be paying a healthy chunk. If I was on the EU team I'd be looking for an even bigger cheque as part of the way out. Give a little and get a wedge in return. Good way out for both parties.

 

[Hobbit]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean movement as in freedom of movement, I meant movement as in compromise, move in their stance.

How has the UK compromised? To be honest this has gone on for so long that I've lost track of details but I'm pretty sure we've been well squeezed along the way. We will also be paying a healthy chunk. If I was on the EU team I'd be looking for an even bigger cheque as part of the way out. Give a little and get a wedge in return. Good way out for both parties.

It was mooted at the weekend that May will be offering more money.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It was mooted at the weekend that May will be offering more money.

It always helps to grease the wheels and it gives the EU it's own victory. Each party needs a win out of this, or not to lose too much face.

 

[SocketRocket]

Anyone know where Nissan's £ 80,000,000.00, bribe is going to be spent now?

Are Nissan going somewhere else?

 

[SocketRocket]

It always helps to grease the wheels and it gives the EU it's own victory. Each party needs a win out of this, or not to lose too much face.

Junker and Tusk have a spare one.

 

[harpo_72]

Anyone know where Nissan's £ 80,000,000.00, bribe is going to be spent now?

Dyson will have it ... incidentally spell checker kept correcting to dysentery 🤣

 

[harpo_72]

Are Nissan going somewhere else?

Doors started to close

 

[Blue in Munich]

Potentially the obvious one but the whole diesel engine issue is massive as has been the drive for mfrs to meet new testing targets. Most of Europe was geared up to make diesel cars. Petrol was pretty much the preserve of little cars. The EU is now hammering diesel engines and the UK govt is screwing them in terms of tax for business leases. Mfrs had to get their current cars through changes in emmission testing. They have largely done that now. Phase 2 is to develop hybrid engines. It has been a perfect storm for the industry and throwing Brexit into the mix has not helped.

Brexit is clearly a major headache but there is more going on in the auto industry than just Brexit.

How about plain old austerity? My wages in real term have been regressing for about a decade, nowhere near keeping up with the rate of inflation. A like for like replacement of my existing car will cost me in the region of 30 grand. The current one starts, stops and does what I need, so I've decided not to until it stops starting, stopping and doing what I need. Looking round the golf club car park I should get another 5 years out of it at the very least.

 

[Dando]

Doors started to close

To keep the warmth in

 

[Mudball]

Read up on The Common Travel Area which has given Irish Republic Citizens the right to reside in the UK since the formation of the ROI. The same rights are a available to residents of the UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man.

Below a clip from the Gov website.

Irish citizens automatically have a right to reside in the UK as part of the common travel area. If you were habitually resident in Ireland or any of the other places in the common travel area before you came to the UK, you will automatically satisfy the conditions of the HRT.
However, if you come to the UK from a country outside the common travel area, you will have to prove you're habitually resident here to meet those conditions. As with UK citizens returning from abroad, from 1 January 2014 you cannot satisfy the HRT in order to claim income-based jobseeker's allowance until you have been living in the UK for at least three months.

Thank you.. i learnt something new.. It may be unusual on some of these forums, but I think i started my Irish posts saying that I am no expert in Irish matters. Glad you pointed me to some facts rather than Faff. Have a drink on me.

 

[Mudball]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean movement as in freedom of movement, I meant movement as in compromise, move in their stance.

How has the UK compromised? To be honest this has gone on for so long that I've lost track of details but I'm pretty sure we've been well squeezed along the way. We will also be paying a healthy chunk. If I was on the EU team I'd be looking for an even bigger cheque as part of the way out. Give a little and get a wedge in return. Good way out for both parties.

Isnt that healthy chunk our existing commitments. I like the idea of compromsie being .. Give us a good deal and we will honour our existing commitments and wont put up borders. Dont give a deal and we will take our money and spend it on the NHS

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Isnt that healthy chunk our existing commitments. I like the idea of compromsie being .. Give us a good deal and we will honour our existing commitments and wont put up borders. Dont give a deal and we will take our money and spend it on the NHS

Yes it is. There are probably ways to dodge some of it but we agreed it early doors, correctly imo, as a sign of goodwill. I didn't state it was part of a UK compromise although some would argue it was granted too quickly.

I disagree with your statement though, give us a good deal etc, the UK is not wanting the borders. The borders are being asked for by the EU in order to keep NI, and so the rest of the UK, out of the single market. All requirements for borders are coming from the EU as far as I can tell.

 

[Dando]

Isnt that healthy chunk our existing commitments. I like the idea of compromsie being .. Give us a good deal and we will honour our existing commitments and wont put up borders. Dont give a deal and we will take our money and spend it on the NHS

Remember that some on here believe we promised to give our weekly EU contributions to the NHS 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

[Sweep]

Maybe the Government could offer Northern Ireland a referendum on reunification with the South, with question something like,
Tick one box:
1. Remain in Union with UK and agree to a hard border if necessary
Or
2. Reunite with Southern Ireland and avoid necessity for hard border

It is written in the Good Friday Agreement that when a majority in the North want reunification with Eire then that is what will happen. Until then NI remains part of the UK.
Reports tonight that David Trimble who negotiated the agreement is saying the backstop contravenes the GFA and is prepared to go to court to stop it.

 

[Sweep]

Ireland and the UK have had a common travel agreement since long before the EU was even a twinkle in someone's eye. That agreement has never been superseded by an EU treaty and has been said by both the UK and Ireland that it will be honoured post-Brexit.

Even Nigel Farage argues for a special case for Irish citizens.

 

[Sweep]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Nissan said to the Japanese government they were worried, the EU saw an opportunity and did a deal.

I would be very surprised. You will be telling us next that all the trade deals the UK can do post Brexit will take decades to arrange. Or is that just more project fear? Or are deals just done quickly in Japan?
Actually it’s neither. The Japan / EU deal has been talked about for years. And as we all know, nations and unions don’t do trade deals to satisfy one company. And as the cars aren’t being built in the EU this case in isolation doesn’t offer much incentive for the EU to do a deal.

 

[Sweep]

Not now that the EU has an agreement with Japan.
I don’t mind either way.

Contrary to popular belief, not all cars are Japanese.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

I would be very surprised. You will be telling us next that all the trade deals the UK can do post Brexit will take decades to arrange. Or is that just more project fear? Or are deals just done quickly in Japan?
Actually it’s neither. The Japan / EU deal has been talked about for years. And as we all know, nations and unions don’t do trade deals to satisfy one company. And as the cars aren’t being built in the EU this case in isolation doesn’t offer much incentive for the EU to do a deal.

I've posted on this before. Trade deals can be concluded very quickly, particularly if it's between just two nations; and if the collective will between the two is also there (the US/Australia agreement took just months to conclude rather than years).

It also depends on the nature of the agreement (i.e. whether it's purely trade in goods, or if it goes wider such as services as well).

The main issue with EU trade agreements is the process it takes to get formal agreement - approval by the Council, the European Parliament and all 28 Member States (in addition to getting the entire text of any agreement translated into each MS official language). Look at the recent CETA agreement - took the best part of 10 years since official launch of negotiations to agreement and being implemented (and I think it's only been partially implemented at the moment, but I could be wrong).

The UK/EU FTA should be the easiest and simplest to agree and implement seeing as we've been in a free trade agreement for 40 years!

As to agreements with the RoW once we leave the EU, there are a whole raft that have been more or less agreed and are awaiting formal sign off once we know what's happening with the EU situation.