Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Lord Tyrion]

To be fair, a policy decided by a vote should not be overturned by a march. The marchers may be vocal but the chance to make a difference was when the vote took place.

They are

A minor point, and a bit pedantic, but they're not marching to change policy. They're marching for a second vote. The policy could be changed on the result of that......

Fair point and not pedantic .

I think my reply to them would be that a second vote can come after the first has been fulfilled

A minor point, and a bit pedantic, but they're not marching to change policy. They're marching for a second vote. The policy could be changed on the result of that......

 

[bluewolf]

To be fair, a policy decided by a vote should not be overturned by a march. The marchers may be vocal but the chance to make a difference was when the vote took place.

They are

Fair point and not pedantic .

I think my reply to them would be that a second vote can come after the first has been fulfilled

I would respectfully disagree. If the Government were about to enact something that you believed would be fundamentally catastrophic for the safety and affluence of the Country. Wouldn't you want them to stop and reconsider?

 

[User62651]

That argument might (would only!) be valid if there was a credible alternative!

But HM's Official Opposition is/wpould be in the same quandry! And they haven't demonstrated any better approach to the Referendum result! And they have other huge internal issues!

Might not be so bad in that other parties have more say/seats and we get more coalition governments from now on, fine by me, reels in the left and right extremists to somewhere sensible in the centre, instead of red or blue we get a nice shade of mauve!

 

[Hobbit]

I would respectfully disagree. If the Government were about to enact something that you believed would be fundamentally catastrophic for the safety and affluence of the Country. Wouldn't you want them to stop and reconsider?

I think in its simplest form you're right. But there's millions of people that disagree, and have disagreed via the vote. I don't subscribe to the theory that all those that voted leave are thick. There's been plenty of intelligent people that voted leave. Equally, I guess there's a good few who voted stay who might only have a few CSE's. Economically, I think it will be damaging in the short term - quite what happens after that I don't know. But the choice made by many was a political choice, not an economic one. And their vote is just as good as anyone's.

Might not be so bad in that other parties have more say/seats and we get more coalition governments from now on, fine by me, reels in the left and right extremists to somewhere sensible in the centre, instead of red or blue we get a nice shade of mauve!

I do hope you're right. We're missing a centrist party, like New Labour, of the 90's.

 

[bluewolf]

I think in its simplest form you're right. But there's millions of people that disagree, and have disagreed via the vote. I don't subscribe to the theory that all those that voted leave are thick. There's been plenty of intelligent people that voted leave. Equally, I guess there's a good few who voted stay who might only have a few CSE's. Economically, I think it will be damaging in the short term - quite what happens after that I don't know. But the choice made by many was a political choice, not an economic one. And their vote is just as good as anyone's.



I do hope you're right. We're missing a centrist party, like New Labour, of the 90's.

I haven't insulted anyone's intelligence. There are plenty of stupids on either side of the divide. I think people were lied to and manipulated. That can happen to anyone.

 

[Hobbit]

I haven't insulted anyone's intelligence. There are plenty of stupids on either side of the divide. I think people were lied to and manipulated. That can happen to anyone.

I didn't say you had, it was a general comment - I know that's something you wouldn't do. My comment was more about whether or not MP's should change the direction. They got us into this awful mess.

 

[bluewolf]

I didn't say you had, it was a general comment - I know that's something you wouldn't do. My comment was more about whether or not MP's should change the direction. They got us into this awful mess.

I like to think that this mess is the final nail in the coffin for all those conspiracy theorists who think that Governments are smart enough to mislead the World. The 2 main parties in this Country and in America have effectively ruined themselves without any help from anyone!!! They're not smart enough to boil water!!!!!

 

[Foxholer]

Might not be so bad in that other parties have more say/seats and we get more coalition governments from now on, fine by me, reels in the left and right extremists to somewhere sensible in the centre, instead of red or blue we get a nice shade of mauve!

I'm not convinced!

UK parliamentary processes and parties are 'naturally' confrontational - quite unlike the many countries that have/expect coalitions. I believe the 2-Party system is actually what 'the electorate' actually wants (also either Blue or Red) - especially after the 'failed' (through diabolical PR imo) Tory/Dib-Dem one.

The problem with not having a clear majority is that instead of 'reasonable compromise' that can (and often did imo) happen in a coalition, laws are in effect hamstrung by clauses added or omitted in order to pander to those who happen to have more influence than they 'deserve'. The deal with the DUP is another example of how 'democracy can be "corrupted"' too. Of course, it's also a demonstration of how the Westminster version of democracy actually works!

 

[Foxholer]

...
I do hope you're right. We're missing a centrist party, like New Labour, of the 90's.

I agree! And would like to see it happen.

Unfortunately, by applying the same 'control freakery' (within the party) that allowed 'New Labour' to become attractive to swing voters to the whole of the governing process, it also managed to make them subsequently unelectable! And (loss of control) changes to leadership elections has resulted in 'the wrong' candidate winning since! The handover from Blair to Broon was a serious debacle too! But the Iraq war debacle caused far more damage than the (global!) banking crisis, imo!

 

[SocketRocket]

I would respectfully disagree. If the Government were about to enact something that you believed would be fundamentally catastrophic for the safety and affluence of the Country. Wouldn't you want them to stop and reconsider?

You should replace 'funamentally ' with 'potentially' in that comment and then you would come across as a little more balanced. That's something sadly lacking in this debate.

They could be inacting somthing potentially invigorating and a boost for the safety and affluence of our country. Remaining is no guarantee of a bright future. of course we both may be completely wrong, things may stay much the same, who can say without a glass ball.

 

[bluewolf]

You should replace 'funamentally ' with 'potentially' in that comment and then you would come across as a little more balanced. That's something sadly lacking in this debate.

They could be inacting somthing potentially invigorating and a boost for the safety and affluence of our country. Remaining is no guarantee of a bright future. of course we both may be completely wrong, things may stay much the same, who can say without a glass ball.

Unfortunately, you're reading it incorrectly. It's a question for another poster to answer. A theoretical mindset that is merely used to illustrate the reason why people are marching. It's not a description of my thought process (or maybe it is, but that's not the reason for the post). Your accusation of a lack of balance is therefore unfortunate and undeserved 👍

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

Pretty impressive amount of people for the march today

 

[Mudball]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

Pretty impressive amount of people for the march today

Trump would say that there were more people at his inauguration..

 

[Fade and Die]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

Pretty impressive amount of people for the march today

March of the Losers.

If they scrapped the result and had a rerun as the democracy deniers want you would have Millions on the street. It would be carnage.

 

[ger147]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

Pretty impressive amount of people for the march today

Not really - 33.5 million people voted in the referendum, only 2% of that figure were at the march...

 

[Mudball]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

Pretty impressive amount of people for the march today

Not really.. just like lemmings in a huddle before the inevitable leap..

No one wants to listen.. you lost.. suck it and jump with us ..

 

[Deleted member 18121]

When I saw the initial figures for the march yesterday it was reported as 100,000.... By the end of the day according to the biased broadcasting company it had increased 7 fold... Absolute bull.

Also, why focus on a city that was largely remain.... Because it fits their biased agenda.

If there is to be a 2nd vote I expect there to be a 2nd vote/rerun on all democratic votes by the people. This should not be a special case.

And I still people spilling the "we were lied to" line...... You're saying that because you lost.

If this goes to another vote and leave wins again.... Then what, will you keep moaning for year after year or finally accept it?

I'll say it again.... Look what the EU has done for Spain, Greece and Italy. We've only coped so well because we are strong and in my opinion would be even stronger out of the EU.

 

[bobmac]

If this goes to another vote and leave wins again.... Then what, will you keep moaning for year after year or finally accept it?

Or if remain win that's one each, we would then need a decider or best out of 5?

 

[woody69]

When I saw the initial figures for the march yesterday it was reported as 100,000.... By the end of the day according to the biased broadcasting company it had increased 7 fold... Absolute bull.

Also, why focus on a city that was largely remain.... Because it fits their biased agenda.

If there is to be a 2nd vote I expect there to be a 2nd vote/rerun on all democratic votes by the people. This should not be a special case.

And I still people spilling the "we were lied to" line...... You're saying that because you lost.

If this goes to another vote and leave wins again.... Then what, will you keep moaning for year after year or finally accept it?

I'll say it again.... Look what the EU has done for Spain, Greece and Italy. We've only coped so well because we are strong and in my opinion would be even stronger out of the EU.

Maybe the march was organised in London because that's where the government are based. Just a crazy thought.

Still loving the, "you lost, get over it" line.

Also, just to add the issues in Spain, Greece, Portugal and Ireland are due to a number of complex reasons, but one of the reasons the UK has been fine is because we don't have the Euro, so are able to control the value of our currency easier.

 

[woody69]

March of the Losers.

If they scrapped the result and had a rerun as the democracy deniers want you would have Millions on the street. It would be carnage.

I think 1200 attended the leave means leave rally in Harrogate yesterday