drdel
Tour Rookie
If you discount the wallies and professional lefties who march for the sake of marching you can probably half the already over-egged numbers which I've seen spread from 350k to 750k.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
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Dellboy
Challenge Tour Pro
But..
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Deleted member 15344
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I doubt there would be “millions†( believe a couple thousand attended a march Farage arranges )
And using the term “losers†is quite crass and quite typical of this mess of a situation
People have the right to be worried because looking from the outside it appears it’s a complete mess and there is no doubt there are some people just asking the question - a question they are entitled to ask.
It was just people exercising their right to have a rally and ask a simple question - “is leaving really the right thing for the countryâ€
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
The only mess about it is the complete and utter mess our supposed leaders have made of the negotiations. It's not what a number of the politicians wanted and consequently they haven't put heart & soul into it and the reason why we are in the mess we are is because of their complete & utter incompetence. Had we gone in & negotiated hard from the off we would be looking at a very different outcome in my opinion.
And you and I well know Phil that is not the question they are asking; they are asking for the vote to be overturned by the back door.
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Deleted member 15344
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Because the guys who did want us to leave then bottled it when the vote happened - Johnson being the prime suspect , he campaigned like mad to leave Europe - won and when it was time for him to stand up and make good his promises he bottled it and now continues to snipe from the behind the scenes.
Far too many of them looking out for themselves only - this “could†turn out to be the worst thing for our country and people like Johnson etc won’t care because they will still be fine - another one of my friends has just been made redundant because of the orders from EU countries stopping dead in tracks
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
So why didn't May put him in charge of the negotiations; he wants it to work according to his rhetoric, he needs it to work in order to survive politically. Farage was never in a position to be in charge of the exit strategy.
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Deleted member 15344
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Johnson should have stepped up and gone for the leadership - he seems to be the worst of the worst - rich posh boy playing with peoples lives. May quite clearly hasn’t got the heart or the desire for it and not one single one of them seems to want to step up and take the bull by the horns and get it sorted one way or the other
Why ? All those Brexit Tories and I struggle to think of one who appears willing to do what is required. The vote I have no issue with regardless of which way it went - the problem for me is that we are leaving it up to what it seems are unwilling incompetent idiots to try and do what’s best for the country
I dislike Boris with a passion but he has continued to campaign long and hard for Brexit. He's spoken passionately about it, written articles about it and given up the post of Foreign Secretary because he believed it was becoming a fudge.
Yes he is an opportunist, and yes he lied about it when campaigning for it but he is one of the very few who hasn't ran away from it.
I still dislike him with a huge passion, and God help the UK if he ever becomes PM. I wouldn't trust him with a school crossing.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
There is a very simple solution to this Tory EU fuddle.
Move the EU border to Scotland and everyone gets what they voted for.
No Irish hard border
NI and Scotland remain in the EU and can still be part of the UK.
England and Wales achieve the political and financial isolation that they clearly desire.
The Scottish border is a third of the distance of the NI border with far fewer roads/crossing points. Much easier to manage
Move the EU border to Scotland and everyone gets what they voted for.
No Irish hard border
NI and Scotland remain in the EU and can still be part of the UK.
England and Wales achieve the political and financial isolation that they clearly desire.
The Scottish border is a third of the distance of the NI border with far fewer roads/crossing points. Much easier to manage
D
Deleted member 1418
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There's an even simpler solution to the Irish border issue and that's the EU working constructively with the UK to ensure there's no hard border rather than constantly saying 'no and it's a UK problem!
As has been pointed out time and time again, EU has no hard border with Norway and Switzerland (who also have trade agreements) and these all appear to work without any problems whatsoever!!
Like a number of EU negotiations I've been involved in, the Commission continuously refuses to compromise, and then at the last minute there'll be 3 or 4 days of intense negotiations, quite often running through the night, and then there'll be some kind of deal.
Makes me quite angry when people are very quick to pass all the blame on UK Government and who have clearly had absolutely no experience of seeing how the EU actually operates and how obstinate EU Commission officials are. This is supposed to be a negotiation, which means compromise and working together constructively.
As has been pointed out time and time again, EU has no hard border with Norway and Switzerland (who also have trade agreements) and these all appear to work without any problems whatsoever!!
Like a number of EU negotiations I've been involved in, the Commission continuously refuses to compromise, and then at the last minute there'll be 3 or 4 days of intense negotiations, quite often running through the night, and then there'll be some kind of deal.
Makes me quite angry when people are very quick to pass all the blame on UK Government and who have clearly had absolutely no experience of seeing how the EU actually operates and how obstinate EU Commission officials are. This is supposed to be a negotiation, which means compromise and working together constructively.
bobmac
Major Champion
Wrong wrong wrong
and SILH will be along shortly to tell you why.
Unless of course he's got you on 'ignore' so he doesn't have to read the FACTUAL posts of someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
jp5
Q-School Graduate
Yes, no problems -- if people are willing to accept border points and queuing lorries. The Government doesn't seem keen on the former, though seems to have accepted the latter will happen.
IanM
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How odd... I drove into Switzerand miles quicker than driving into Gib! Got a nice wave from the bloke, actually less of a queue than getting over the Severn Bridge on a Friday!
Easy if there's a will. But dreadfully difficult if there isnt. And boy oh boy, there isnt.
Easy if there's a will. But dreadfully difficult if there isnt. And boy oh boy, there isnt.
I queue every time I get off a flight... i’ve been stopped going by ferry to and from Ireland - what frictionless border?
jp5
Q-School Graduate
Were you in a truck at the time?
Also Switzerland is in Schengen, which last time I checked the UK isn't planning on joining! So can't see how the NI/ROI border will be as 'frictionless' as the Swiss border, which still has considerable customs infrastructure.To me NI staying in the customs union and rest of UK out, with checks between the two where there is a natural land border anyway, seems the more sensible option to me, -- but think the Government should just be honest with people that this is what it comes down to. Funnily enough they are dependent on the handful of MPs that wouldn't allow this, so the charade continues!
jp5
Q-School Graduate
NI / ROI.
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Deleted member 1418
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You'll find the Government doesn't want either when it comes to trade with the EU, and has been coming up with proposals to cover both, which the EU has consistently said no to, without actually coming up with anything constructive either.
And if you look back over the last couple of years with the migrant crisis in the Med, a whole host of countries were starting to question Schengen.
People need to remember that every country has Border Inspection Posts and there will always have to be some kind of checks on agri-food and other industrial goods (I think at the moment we check around 10% of goods entering the UK). I know for a fact that the UK Government has been working on how to improve these with regard to Brexit (both deal and no deal) to ensure that movement of good through our BIPs continue to be as frictionless as possible.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
My understanding is that there is a hard border between France and Switzerland because Switzerland is in the Single Market but not in the Custom Union - I do not know the volumes of HGVs going through the border checkpoints but the wait can be 20mins to 2hrs - and I doubt the volume of HGV traffic through ANY France/Switzerland border crossing is anything like what goes through Dover. Bottom line for France/Switzerland border - it is a hard border so not acceptable to the government for EU/NI border;
On Norway - Norway is not in the Customs Union but is in the Single Market through being a member of the EEA - and has signed up to the four freedoms of the EU. The border is efficient but not frictionless - and the main crossing of the Norway/Sweden handles about 1300 HGVs a day - about 1/10th of that going through Dover. Bottom line for Sweden/Norway border - Norway has signed up to the four freedoms of the EU - which includes freedom of movement of people so not acceptable to the government for EU/NI border;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594
Foxholer
Blackballed
Surely. as a Civil Servant, you recognise the behaviour!
The EU negotiating team is simply continuing the tradition of those that (seem to) have the upper hand to puit up barriers so that 'the plebs' eventually rebel against their own 'team'!
And while I might applaud the cynical approach the EU negotiators might take, I'm becoming more inclined to the UK team taking an equivalent hard line approach to the negottations. The UE has at least as much to lose as UK should a 'no deal' be the result in real terms (if not percentage ones)! And the pressure from within, from the likes of German Car makers, will very likely start to have an effect!
It will still come down to some last minute negotiation that both teams should be well used to by now!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Er....Without challenging Pieman's integrity, how do you actually know they are 'FACTUAL'? They simply happen to concur with your OPINION!
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