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Deleted member 1147
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Has there been a good Labour MP since Robin Cook?
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Alan Johnson immediately springs to mind, David Milliband is a big loss.
Any decent ones now are on the back benches waiting for Corbyn to go. They don't want to be tainted by associating with his leadership.
I've just had a look at Gordon Brown's last Cabinet. Apart from those that are no longer in politics, there's quite a few that you could add. Apart from the idiots at the top, there is still a good number that could turn the party around. Unfortunately the party's own structure and processes no longer lends itself to control by the MP's. As we've seen, grass roots supporters are keeping Corbyn as leader.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Testify..
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
At this point is it worth recalling that Cameron called Brexit with only 37% of the UK supporting his party far less Brexit.
63% did not want him to be PM.
63% did not want him to be PM.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
The only thing that proves is that there were a lot of voters for Leave who are/were not Conservative supporters.
Hardly news.
U
User62651
Guest
Interesting analysis video link I saw through FB about why No Deal Brexit is likely only beneficial to the very rich. Quite recent and worth a watch I think no matter your views on EU, see if u agree with none, any or all of it. Narrated by the ever-wise Stephen Fry.
robinthehood
Hacker
youre forgetting brexit means wwe can have blue passports and powerfull hoovers.
result!
Listened to it twice. What a crock...
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Not sure the point you're trying to make. At the 2017 election 36.9% of Scottish voters voted for the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon wants another independence referendum but 63% did not want her to be First Minister.
So are you saying that there shouldn't have been an EU referendum because only 37% of the population supported Cameron? In which case you must surely agree that there shouldn't be a Scottish independence referendum because only 37% of Scots supported the SNP.
If, as Fry says, the UK has full sovereignty why did it oppose a number of laws from the EU and lose 16% of those cases? All the information about law making and law opposition is out there. In a recent piece the Remain side went from saying the UK was in full control of its laws to saying the UK lost only 16% of the diktats it opposed, with the emphasis on only. Other Remainers, some of which are on here, have said they prefer the EU making the UK's laws as successive UK govts are inept and/or untrustworthy.
Is the UK in full control of setting its own laws? Technically, yes. The diktats from the EU have to be turned into UK law by the UK parliament. But in a number of cases the UK has reluctantly accepted those laws after opposing them but losing the case.
Full sovereignty? Colour it whichever way you want but the answer is the UK does not have full, independent sovereignty.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I am saying that considerably less than the 37% who voted for Cameron were Brexit supporters so his real support for his yet to be proposed Brexit would have been between 18 to 28% of the 37%
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
A lot of those that didn’t vote Tory @ that election voted for UKIP, didn’t they?
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
But the only % that actually matters is the 52% that voted leave. Regardless of how many people supported having a vote the majority of those that voted were in favour of Brexit.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
The Guardian did an excellently researched, well balanced article early this year - not a rubbish Twitter feed. They showed that for all the weeping and wailing from Leavers about all the laws coming out of the EU the reality was that out of over 4,000 laws from the EU the UK had happily accepted 87% of them. Of the 13% they weren't happy with, 84% of their appeals were lost. The Guardian's slant was that, in the main, the UK has recognised that to be part of the club they will have to accept some laws they're not keen on. Seems quite reasonable.
You do realise that Jim Grace acknowledges that the UK opposed a number of laws and directives but then goes onto say the UK govt is "the bad guys...." "Bad guys" bit is subjective and unintelligent.
He proved the point, as he has "done some research," that the UK opposed laws but had them enforced. Ergo the UK does not have full, independent sovereignty.
And just what is your point, other than to reinforce that the EU imposes laws and that no EU member state has full, independent sovereignty?
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
If you don't have full control of your laws, your borders, your trading arrangements, your defence and your money then you cannot be an independant sovereign country. I am not suggesting everyone wants us to be soverign as I do understand there are European federalists amongst us, that is of course their perogative.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
The last unbiased Guardian article I read was in 1976... they reported it was sunny in July.
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