Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48543313

no doubt if this had been an English Tory MP some forumers would've had a field day!

Not sure anyone would be having a field day over someone who has had a miscarriage this week. But she did something wrong, it's obviously has very serious repercussions on her mental health and she's off to jail. Not sure the flavour of her politics make any difference to a tragic story.

 

[Dando]

Not sure anyone would be having a field day over someone who has had a miscarriage this week. But she did something wrong, it's obviously has very serious repercussions on her mentalhealth and she's off to jail. Not sure the flavour of her politics make any difference to a tragic story.

I didn't mean anyone would have a field day over someone having a miscarriage and maybe I should've made that clear and said that my comment was purely in relation to her embezzlement charge as I forgot how some on here like to twist things

 

[IanM]

an Independent Scotland within the EU.

I get it, that's the same as a Catholic Rangers Fan or a wearing a Celtic Shirt in the drum and pipe corps! can you make jokes like that? It's all Christianity to me dude!

 

[Fade and Die]

Dan Snow [former front man for Lets Stay Together 2014] now in favour of an Independent Scotland within the EU.
Bit of a wind change there Dan.

Meanwhile...…...Johnson and Rabb battle it out to be the last ever UK Tory MP.

That's the biggest lie the scotch nazi party tell to the Mcsheeple... Scotland simply cannot leave the UK and be admitted into the EU, they know the only way Scotland can be in the EU is to remain in the UK. (i imagine poor old Doons face when he realises is a bit like the Guardian editor when he is trying to do a story about the muslims blockading a schools for teaching about LBGT rights)

 

[Hobbit]

Tories had it from 2005-17, not the longest of periods, but lost it when the tories were in control.
That says more about them than Labour to me.

Really? It’s becoming a little worrying how much everything is always the Tories fault in your eyes. Again, it’s a bellwether seat, and very well recognised and acknowledged as such. It will flip-flop when things are close and at by-elections.

It’s also says a huge amount about Labour that they can barely scrape a win over a nothing Party that has no manifesto at a by-elections.

A decent Labour Party, with a centre-left position, well led and with a credible leader and Shadow Cabinet(Abbott, really?) should be streets ahead of an inept Tory govt. The fact that they are not says a hell of a lot to me too.

If it was an exam I'd struggle to give both the Tories and Labour more than 2 out of 10.

 

[Deleted member 18645]

If it was an exam I'd struggle to give both the Tories and Labour more than 2 out of 10.

Diane Abbott would claim that was seven.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Really? It’s becoming a little worrying how much everything is always the Tories fault in your eyes. Again, it’s a bellwether seat, and very well recognised and acknowledged as such. It will flip-flop when things are close and at by-elections.

It’s also says a huge amount about Labour that they can barely scrape a win over a nothing Party that has no manifesto at a by-elections.

A decent Labour Party, with a centre-left position, well led and with a credible leader and Shadow Cabinet(Abbott, really?) should be streets ahead of an inept Tory govt. The fact that they are not says a hell of a lot to me too.

If it was an exam I'd struggle to give both the Tories and Labour more than 2 out of 10.

Is there any party that would get more than half marks at the moment? One may be tempted to give the Brexit Party a better score but after last night's result, which was probably as open a goal as they will get to get a proper MP (as opposed the MEPs that no one really counts), not sure they'd muster half marks.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Diane Abbott would claim that was seven.

Really? It’s becoming a little worrying how much everything is always the Tories fault in your eyes. Again, it’s a bellwether seat, and very well recognised and acknowledged as such. It will flip-flop when things are close and at by-elections.

It’s also says a huge amount about Labour that they can barely scrape a win over a nothing Party that has no manifesto at a by-elections.

A decent Labour Party, with a centre-left position, well led and with a credible leader and Shadow Cabinet(Abbott, really?) should be streets ahead of an inept Tory govt. The fact that they are not says a hell of a lot to me too.

If it was an exam I'd struggle to give both the Tories and Labour more than 2 out of 10.

Again Brian, why do the 2 things have to be connected, ideally we’d like a strong Government (any party) and a strong opposition (any party) but everytime someone mentions how weak or poor the tories are, the come back is always the same, ignore the tories and state, labour are .........
It’s like me asking you why Boro didn’t get promoted and you answering “well neither did Leeds”
And the icing on the cake?
Once again let’s have a dig at Abbott and backed up by the next post.

Labour are a shambles, Labour need to sort their act out, imo, Labour need a new leader, none of that is the reason why the tories are so bad.

I take your point on Peterborough, but yesterday and even today with them winning fault is still found in Labour rather than the other parties failures.

This thread, apart from a few posters, is like a right wing/tory love in at times and I believe it’s about time a bit of balance or honesty was posted, no issue with getting wrong at times, just not going to blame tories for Labour’s issues.

 

[Hobbit]

Is there any party that would get more than half marks at the moment? One may be tempted to give the Brexit Party a better score but after last night's result, which was probably as open a goal as they will get to get a proper MP (as opposed the MEPs that no one really counts), not sure they'd muster half marks.

TBH, I think the rebuilding job that the LibDems have been on for a few years, aided by several own goals elsewhere, is making me watch them a little more closely. But you're right, there isn't anyone I'd give 5 out of 10 to at present.

 

[Hobbit]

Again Brian, why do the 2 things have to be connected, ideally we’d like a strong Government (any party) and a strong opposition (any party) but everytime someone mentions how weak or poor the tories are, the come back is always the same, ignore the tories and state, labour are .........
It’s like me asking you why Boro didn’t get promoted and you answering “well neither did Leeds”
And the icing on the cake?
Once again let’s have a dig at Abbott and backed up by the next post.

Labour are a shambles, Labour need to sort their act out, imo, Labour need a new leader, none of that is the reason why the tories are so bad.

I take your point on Peterborough, but yesterday and even today with them winning fault is still found in Labour rather than the other parties failures.

This thread, apart from a few posters, is like a right wing/tory love in at times and I believe it’s about time a bit of balance or honesty was posted, no issue with getting wrong at times, just not going to blame tories for Labour’s issues.

I'm all for honesty, but lets include Labour in that. They are both as bad as each other.

As for the Abbott comment, why not? She's an appalling Shadow Home Sec. The thought of her in office scares me. The thought of McDonnell scares me even more - he is downright dangerous. But why can't I use Abbott as a good example of what is bad in Labour? Is she off limits? If you look back through some threads you will see I have praised her for a constituency work and the work she has done on mental health. But at the level she's at now, she's a bad joke.

As why do the 2 things have to be connected? My reason for stating it was you, of late, continually bash the Tories in almost everything. I see both sides as different peas in the same pod. In this instance both parties contested a by-election. Labour won it, barely, but still won it. And in my eyes if they struggle to beat a new, one trick pony, party, there is something equally wrong with them.

You've said Labour are a shambles, but Lordy if someone links them in a thread to an inept Tory party you're all over them.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm all for honesty, but lets include Labour in that. They are both as bad as each other.

As for the Abbott comment, why not? She's an appalling Shadow Home Sec. The thought of her in office scares me. The thought of McDonnell scares me even more - he is downright dangerous. But why can't I use Abbott as a good example of what is bad in Labour? Is she off limits? If you look back through some threads you will see I have praised her for a constituency work and the work she has done on mental health. But at the level she's at now, she's a bad joke.

As why do the 2 things have to be connected? My reason for stating it was you, of late, continually bash the Tories in almost everything. I see both sides as different peas in the same pod. In this instance both parties contested a by-election. Labour won it, barely, but still won it. And in my eyes if they struggle to beat a new, one trick pony, party, there is something equally wrong with them.

You've said Labour are a shambles, but Lordy if someone links them in a thread to an inept Tory party you're all over them.

Bashing the tories or questioning why people are avoiding answering the question about the tories.
Who actually done worse in Peterborough last night? Labour won against the odds, straight away we had post having a go at the new MP, not questioning the tories or The Brexit Party etc, straight in kicking the MP.
Yes I have gone all over a couple of people when linked to a point about inept tories, because they’re deflecting, it’s not answering the point, it’s burying their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away.
Abbott is an easy target used to score cheap points, my comment wasn’t aimed at you, it was the follow up post, nothing constructive simply let’s kick that old can along the road.

 

[SocketRocket]

Bashing the tories or questioning why people are avoiding answering the question about the tories.
Who actually done worse in Peterborough last night? Labour won against the odds, straight away we had post having a go at the new MP, not questioning the tories or The Brexit Party etc, straight in kicking the MP.
Yes I have gone all over a couple of people when linked to a point about inept tories, because they’re deflecting, it’s not answering the point, it’s burying their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away.
Abbott is an easy target used to score cheap points, my comment wasn’t aimed at you, it was the follow up post, nothing constructive simply let’s kick that old can along the road.

But you have filters that block out criticism of the Torys and let in criticism of Labour.
No one here is praising the Torys record, I think we all believe it to be appalling, especially in the way they have mismanaged Brexit. Labour have also done their best to frustrate Brexit and be vague to the point of riddicule on clarifying where they stand. Alas, you will interpret this post as being protective of the Conservatives and unfair to Labour.

 

[Hacker Khan]

So the moral of the story after the last few posts is that both the main political parties are currently very poor with the only consolation being that your specific party is slightly less crap than the other one, depending on who you vote for, Tommy Robinson is a violent thug and the new Brexit party can't win a seat at a GE? So in a way we are all losers.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But you have filters that block out criticism of the Torys and let in criticism of Labour.
No one here is praising the Torys record, I think we all believe it to be appalling, especially in the way they have mismanaged Brexit. Labour have also done their best to frustrate Brexit and be vague to the point of riddicule on clarifying where they stand. Alas, you will interpret this post as being protective of the Conservatives and unfair to Labour.

No I’m not, feel free to waste your time searching this thread and show were I have even once praised Labour over Brexit or where they stand.
My point is, and always has been, is how much tory supporters have criticised the tory party for their handling of Brexit and then brought Labour in to the post like you have above to somehow back up the tory c@ck up.

Yes, I recognise it’s simplistic, Yes, I understand others don’t agree.
Imo, only one party and one party alone is responsible for this mess, if they had had their act together we would be out now.
It’s amazing how they can come together and give her a vote of confidence in Parliament but fail to give her the backing for her deal.
They had the power within their grasp all along, regardless of any other party, but yet when many of themselves have failed to support her deal as it’s seen as bad and Labour haven’t supported it, we get the “Labour have also done their best to frustrate Brexit” Labour should of been made irrelevant, not used as scapegoats.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Labour are a shambles, Labour need to sort their act out, imo, Labour need a new leader...

Amen to that! While Corbyn is leader, Tories are going to have so many weapons to damage him, therefore Labour, with! No-one on their current front bench is capable, imo, of being a credible winner! Yvette Cooper seems to me to be the best candidate, but unlikely to pass the 'rank and file' selection process!

...
none of that is the reason why the tories are so bad.
...

Brexit aside, I don't believe Tories 'are so bad'! Though, traditionally 'unity' is a Tory strength. The problem the Tories have is that Brexit is SO divisive that that unity, therefore the PM's leadership is 'naturally undermined'! As I stated way back in 2016, it was/is a poisoned chalice! I'm almost certain that, if they were honest/not whipped, Labour would be pretty split also - though, imo, rather less than the Tories!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That's the biggest lie the scotch nazi party tell to the Mcsheeple... Scotland simply cannot leave the UK and be admitted into the EU, they know the only way Scotland can be in the EU is to remain in the UK. (i imagine poor old Doons face when he realises is a bit like the Guardian editor when he is trying to do a story about the muslims blockading a schools for teaching about LBGT rights)

You seem to be getting a bit 'over excited'.
The EU will welcome an Independent Scotland along side the other 27 independent countries.

I do not have a scooby what any of this has to do with Muslims and schools

 

[Hobbit]

Bashing the tories or questioning why people are avoiding answering the question about the tories.
Who actually done worse in Peterborough last night? Labour won against the odds, straight away we had post having a go at the new MP, not questioning the tories or The Brexit Party etc, straight in kicking the MP.
Yes I have gone all over a couple of people when linked to a point about inept tories, because they’re deflecting, it’s not answering the point, it’s burying their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away.
Abbott is an easy target used to score cheap points, my comment wasn’t aimed at you, it was the follow up post, nothing constructive simply let’s kick that old can along the road.

I totally agree with the criticism levelled at the new MP. She's already publicly apologised for liking anti-semitic posts on social media. She also said that Theresa May had a "Zionist Slave Masters Agenda." A Labour backbencher has said she's glad the Nigel Farage's party didn't win the the by-election but she couldn't be gleeful or proud because it shows that antisemitism is becoming normal in the party.

The Tories might well be solely responsible for the Brexit mess but the discussion was about Peterborough. And Labour have used Brexit as a vehicle to disrupt the govt to gain office. That's understandable but what would they have achieved with their "6 points" in a Parliament that is hung.

Personally, I hope Labour get crucified by the equalities commission for their appalling ineptitude in dealing with anti-semitism. They can sack Alistair Cambell in hours but it takes years for suspended MP's to be kicked out for anti-semitism.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I totally agree with the criticism levelled at the new MP. She's already publicly apologised for liking anti-semitic posts on social media. She also said that Theresa May had a "Zionist Slave Masters Agenda." A Labour backbencher has said she's glad the Nigel Farage's party didn't win the the by-election but she couldn't be gleeful or proud because it shows that antisemitism is becoming normal in the party.

The Tories might well be solely responsible for the Brexit mess but the discussion was about Peterborough. And Labour have used Brexit as a vehicle to disrupt the govt to gain office. That's understandable but what would they have achieved with their "6 points" in a Parliament that is hung.

So should the tories and their supporters be asking why Peterborough is more of a disaster for them or deflecting on to the Labour MP? For all the worries about her, she’s not the reason they lost.

As for Labour and Brexit are you suggesting they should of just “sucked it up” and supported her deal?
The “6 Brexit Lines” were set out in 2017 before we knew the deal and were effectively ripped up when Corbyn offered to work with TM earlier this year.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Imo, only one party and one party alone is responsible for this mess, if they had had their act together we would be out now.
It’s amazing how they can come together and give her a vote of confidence in Parliament but fail to give her the backing for her deal.
...

The problem, imo, is that attitudes of MPs to Brexit are so evenly split (in a virtually hung parliament) that it's unlikely that ANY real decision/division can be relied upon to get passed! I'm pretty certain that, while there are a number of totally committed Leavers and/or Remainers who will bulk out any vote, there are also sufficient 'swingers' either way that NO progress toward resolution within Parliament will be achieved!

...
They had the power within their grasp all along, regardless of any other party, but yet when many of themselves have failed to support her deal as it’s seen as bad and Labour haven’t supported it, we get the “Labour have also done their best to frustrate Brexit” Labour should of been made irrelevant, not used as scapegoats.

May's 'deal' WAS (potentially) BAD, as it was eminently possible - likely even - for actions outside UK Government's real control, to prevent UK from ever actually leaving!

And certainly, Labour has frustrated the Tories along the way. May's 'majority' was so slim, that that was always going to be likely! And an Opposition's job is 'to oppose', so that's exactly what they are doing!

It's an impasse that, I believe, is only resolvable by a confirming Referendum, where Parliament pre-commits to implementing a Leave result! But that still doesn't solve the possibility/likelihood of the 'bad agreement' that's (the only agreement) on the table!

 

[Fade and Die]

You seem to be getting a bit 'over excited'.
The EU will welcome an Independent Scotland along side the other 27 independent countries.

I do not have a scooby what any of this has to do with Muslims and schools

The idea that the E.U. would welcome in 27 more spongers after loosing one of its biggest contributors is laughable! 😂.... (seriously though mate, maybe get help,🤭)