BLM protests/ Riots.

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Wolf

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Some of the petitions are click-bait imo, even as mentioned in the random irritations about the racist complaint over the track’n’trace trial on the Isle of Wight, when you look in to it, it’s one MP asking questions, making a statement and it should simply be scrolled past and ignored.
Sadly mate this one is not click bait. The muppets actually set it up and got nearly 100 signatures, can't imagine it'll get much more but its a sad example of people taking things to far..

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/anger-over-calls-to-rename-white-cliffs-228573/
 

pauldj42

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Sadly mate this one is not click bait. The muppets actually set it up and got nearly 100 signatures, can't imagine it'll get much more but its a sad example of people taking things to far..

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/anger-over-calls-to-rename-white-cliffs-228573/
It’s the Change.Org website, a website were anyone can set up a petition.

Me or you could go on there now and publish a petition that says anything we want, ie, “All ex-Royal Marines to be given a £1000.00 ever Christmas” I’m sure we could get more signatures than her.;)

Let the idiot be ignored.
 

Wolf

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It’s the Change.Org website, a website were anyone can set up a petition.

Me or you could go on there now and publish a petition that says anything we want, ie, “All ex-Royal Marines to be given a £1000.00 ever Christmas” I’m sure we could get more signatures than her.;)

Let the idiot be ignored.
Lets do that one 😁
 

Old Skier

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Would anyone admit to being racist on here?

I think I am to a degree, as I’m genuinely not sure how you’d define it, I certainly hold prejudices and some of those are down to experience and age.

Tried to educate myself and I’m certainly more tolerant than many I know and 8 years as an Equality and Diversity Officer certainly opened my eyes.

But I do think some of my views would be described as racist were I don’t see them that way.

Maybe it’s a cultural think.🤷‍♂️
You don't have to admit to it apparently, have a different view and some one will call you one anyway.
 

4LEX

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The Beatles should be banned :mad: Penny Lane was named after a slaver and therefore to carry on listening to The Beatles, you're actively encouraging racism. I urge every sane minded individual to join me at 8pm tonight in burning every LP, cassete and CD of said band you have in your possession!

Seriously this is getting out of control - I can see both sides to it. I attended a really peaceful, genuinely inspiring and eye opening BLM gathering a few days ago. The message of justice and celebrating this countries black history was heard loud and clear. I'm absolutely in favour of some of the worst slave traders statues being removed and displayed in museums. They should be replaced with a mixture of more respectable historical figures with an emphasis on BAME culture. It's genuinely disgraceful to see statues of men who played a role in killing thousands of slaves staring out over the country, while we're saying we're not racist.

However we weren't the instigators of the slave trade. We did play a key role in the peak of it but we were also the first superpower to recognise it was wrong and petition for it be to abolished. That decision saved hundreds of thousands of lives. You have to be very careful about applying morality of today, to 300-400 years ago. And if Africa had been a superpower, theres no doubt they wouldn've plundered Spain and Portugal and sold white people as slaves. It's a crime of it's era. While it doesn't make it right, you have to apply context to it. It's a dark chapter of our history and should be remembered as such.

Anyone can see these protests in London especially, have been hijacked by the far left and a violent element in the community. The Police have been under strong orders not to engage, which has been wrong. It's given these factions increased confidence and as a result, we're going to see widescale disorder in London on Saturday. BoJo, Kahn and the Met topbrass have got this badly wrong. You've got the BBC describing a protest as peaceful when 49 Police officers were injured! Throw in Police attacked in the street with gaggles of pondlife on the sides cheering, war memorials vandalised and plans drawn up to damage more....the people committing these crimes are too stupid to realise they're only gonna cost themselves in the medium, and long run as public sympathy vanishes :rolleyes:
 

chrisd

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There is strong evidence Colston could be connected to as many as 20,000 deaths... Not sure how that can be overlooked...
I haven't suggested it be overlooked, and I know nothing about Colston, but the statue wasnt erected because of the 20,000 deaths it must have been for positive things he did too and I'm just wondering whether things done in completely differing times merit the judgement based on today's morals ?
 

bluewolf

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Can it be better discussed in a museum than in the street, who decides the worthiness/ merit and, taking a balance, if a person did lots of good for his community but a couple of things that subsequently were thought to be wrong should the statue stay or go - I'm not picking on you by the way, but trying to see generally where the balance lies 👍
It's a tricky question. If a person does a lot of "good", but has a few "wrongs" in his closet, then I'd probably be happy for the statue to stay. However, in my opinion, making a fortune off the slave trade is not something that I can overlook. In much the same way that money made from drug sale is tainted, then money made from the wholesale trade of people is hugely tainted. I do agree that it's a hard balance to strike, and that no one will agree with every decision made, but the Bristol statue in particular is very far from the balancing point in my opinion.
 

AmandaJR

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My take on it is to try not to only view the person through modern eyes and judge them by our present standards, moral and behaviour. If they were evil gits that were clearly seen as such at the time they were alive then we're wrong to honour them and such monuments should only be in museums etc for educational purposes. If, however, their behaviour when alive mirrored the times and were nothing extraordinary, rather the norm, and they went on to have a positive impact (even if just financially on a city) then I'd treat it differently.

If that makes sense...

As for racism. I saw a TV programme about research into Sickle Cell Anaemia and it was shameful how little funding there has been into such an awful disease. If all skin colours were affected by something similar millions would have been spent.
 

chrisd

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It's a tricky question. If a person does a lot of "good", but has a few "wrongs" in his closet, then I'd probably be happy for the statue to stay. However, in my opinion, making a fortune off the slave trade is not something that I can overlook. In much the same way that money made from drug sale is tainted, then money made from the wholesale trade of people is hugely tainted. I do agree that it's a hard balance to strike, and that no one will agree with every decision made, but the Bristol statue in particular is very far from the balancing point in my opinion.
I see your point. However, he was only doing what was considered normal back in the day and a comparison to the drug trade might be misleading given that drug dealing today is illegal across most of the world and known to be by everyone. I'm absolutely not condoning the slave trade but wonder if someone in years to come decided something being done today that no one would turn a hair to, was later thought awful, would it be acceptable to demonise us retrospectively?
 

bluewolf

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I see your point. However, he was only doing what was considered normal back in the day and a comparison to the drug trade might be misleading given that drug dealing today is illegal across most of the world and known to be by everyone. I'm absolutely not condoning the slave trade but wonder if someone in years to come decided something being done today that no one would turn a hair to, was later thought awful, would it be acceptable to demonise us retrospectively?
I'm not advocating the demonisation of Slave Traders (although I strongly believe that they knew full well that what they were doing was immoral). I'll let their respective Gods judge them (if you believe in that kind of thing).

However I am advocating the removal of Statues that commemorate Slave Traders. Those Statues should be taken to a place where people can be taken and taught about history and how we have learned from previous mistakes. How we have moved on as a species (in most cases). I am a firm believer in the notion that History is akin to standing on the shoulders of giants.

However a Statue should be a beacon of excellence. A rare honour bestowed upon the best of us, so that when we walk past we can be influenced by the better aspects of our own species.
 

pauldj42

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I don’t think it’s correct to judge them against their times, lives were worthless, the gap between have and have nots were unbelievable by any standard, poor people had no say in their lives etc.

Genuine question, if it was acceptable for men to sleep with 12 year old kids “in their time” would we have the same attitude?

Their times had very little of social conscience and what was right or wrong, just because they did it, doesn’t mean it was ok.

I agree we can’t change it, but we can’t condone some that behaviour and turn a blind eye.

If we are going to remember the past, learn and move forward as a society then we have to be honest about it.
 

DanFST

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What happens in Germany has nothing to do with us, I couldn't care less who they have statues of.

As for Jimmy Saville, now you are just being stupid.

Oh sorry I'm being stupid, I was just going off this post of yours.

I don't believe they should be removed period........ i find this thought not only ridiculous but down right shocking.
I can answer seeing as you don't care, They've no statues of Hitler. They have no problem remembering their history. It's almost like there is other ways to learn about the past without having grandiose commemorations of questionable people in a public space.

If I was black, I probably wouldn't be too happy seeing someone placed on a pedestal who potentially killed my family members, and thousands of my own countrymen in order to gain personal wealth.

I'm not attached to, or proud of lumps of metal and marble of men who saw others as sub human, and just wanted money. But i'm just stupid and PC I guess.


(If anyone touches the Greyfriars Bobby statue, heads will roll.)
 
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