BLM protests/ Riots.

[User20205]

They both feel extremely painful. I think we all understand what pain feels like and are intelligent enough to understand what it is like for others. I'm losing the point here, if white people are not allowed an opinion on racism the solution to it is lost.

you can have an opinion, it’s just not a very ‘educated’ one. Note educated re experience not intellect.
I have no clue what it’s like to be subjected to systemic racism, & I accept that.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So you're saying it's racist to say that black people are the best at sprinting in the world? The fact that every gold medal has gone to that group doesn't matter ?

Alan Wells.

 

[User20205]

Alan Wells.

This is what happens. Don’t get drawn into it ?

I don’t think it’s deliberate in this case but it’s a tactic of the ‘opposition’. Deflect, obfuscate and make false equivalence.
We’re not taking about Olympic medals, we’re talking about systemic racism.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is what happens. I don’t think it’s deliberate in the case but it’s a tactic of the ‘opposition’. Deflect, obfuscate and make false equivalence.
We’re not taking about Olympic medals, we’re talking about systemic racism.

I blame the white millennials.

 

[JustWayne]

The words aren't racist, however it is a loaded phrase knowingly used by racists amongst others to denigrate the BLM movement.

BLM are not saying 'only Black Lives Matter", they are saying "Black Lives Matter Too"


If you've got a few minutes, this article explains it a lot more eloquantly than I can.

https://www.parents.com/kids/respon...esnt-work-in-terms-simple-enough-for-a-child/

You’re wrong, BLM aren’t saying black lives matter too, FIVE black people were killed during the protests, so far the police have only identified seven suspects for one of the killings (all black), there will be no protest over their deaths because they weren’t killed by white people or cops, if black lives really mattered to BLM they would be concentrating their efforts in their own communities.

 

[DanFST]

Alan Wells.

Going off topic, this kid is one to watch. If he ran that at the Olympics he'd have come 6th, even with the slow start!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1122317722422005761

We should go back to the topic at hand.

 

[drdel]

So a man stands at Speakers Corner and says "Black lives matter".
Following day same man stands and says "White lives matter".

I wonder which speech is termed racial.

 

[User20205]

You’re wrong, BLM aren’t saying black lives matter too, FIVE black people were killed during the protests, so far the police have only identified seven suspects for one of the killings (all black), there will be no protest over their deaths because they weren’t killed by white people or cops, if black lives really mattered to BLM they would be concentrating their efforts in their own communities.

Too late I am drawn in!!! Help.
The issue is treatment of a minority group by the instruments of state, the law, the police etc.......not crime within a community. Why deflect? That’s what my kids do

 

[SocketRocket]

But it's nuanced, that's the point. A kick in the plums feels nothing like a broken bone.



And I totally agree as I said in the post before quoted. But an opinion and ignorantly believing you completely understand something are totally different. Hence the wife test!

Who said they totally understand, I certainly never and if you believe I did you've completely missed my point, my comments say the complete opposite. I am suggesting that the only way to make a positive change is for the matter to be fully understood, then it will be possible to look for meaningful solutions, otherwise you just have knee jerk reactions that don't achieve anything useful.

 

[User20205]

So a man stands at Speakers Corner and says "Black lives matter".
Following day same man stands and says "White lives matter".

I wonder which speech is termed racial.

Both are.....but context is everything!!! You could start a white lives matter group in South Africa to protest the seemingly state legitimised killings of white farmers. Different thread, different day tho

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I'm seeing lots of slogans and soundbites from all sides

But what I would rather see is practical solutions to the problems that are undoubtedly out there,

until then, we are just going round in circles

Also whilst there are definitely issues here, they fade into insignificance compared to the USA over which we have absolutely no influence
therefore we should concentrate on getting our own house in order to be a beacon to other countries

 

[Beezerk]

Both are.....but context is everything!!! You could start a white lives matter group in South Africa to protest the seemingly state legitimise killings of white farmers. Different thread, different day tho

I think half the problem is, nowadays if you don't appear to conform to the letter to a particular cause you are in the wrong, take BLM for instance, someone has a different take on it and they instantly get labelled as being racist, it's all over the pages of this thread in a subtle way.
If you're argument differs in any way to mine, sorry you're a racist and up go the stupid memes which try to further point the finger that I am right and you are an ignorant racist.
It seems gone are the days of reasonable discussion and debate, everyone gets labelled in some way or other.

 

[SocketRocket]

you can have an opinion, it’s just not a very ‘educated’ one. Note educated re experience not intellect.
I have no clue what it’s like to be subjected to systemic racism, & I accept that.

Really, as an intelligent man can you not understand what it would feel like, I find that hard to believe. Why is this being used, it seems like a diversion from what was being discussed. Is anyone suggesting white people have no part to play in looking for a solution to racism involving black people.

 

[rudebhoy]

You are a reasonably well off white man. Does that make you incapable of a reasoned opinion, or is that you are not 'older' you have a get out of jail free card to your own condemnation.

That's a bit subjective. I'm sure if you asked anyone, they would say they had a reasoned opinion. Even those we disagree with.

My point was about demographics. If you are old, white and male, you are more likely to be right-wing and xenophobic.

 

[User20205]

I'm seeing lots of slogans and soundbites from all sides

But what I would rather see is practical solutions to the problems that are undoubtedly out there,

until then, we are just going round in circles

The practical solution starts with an acceptance that there is a systemic racial bias within western democracy.
Without that we get nowhere & nothing improves. It flares up every now & then with increasing repercussions.
I don’t really recognise my white privilege, I don’t even know if it’s a thing. I don’t really want to examine or challenge any beliefs that I’ve held for ever, but I’m prepared to ‘educate myself.

 

[hovis]

This is what happens. Don’t get drawn into it ?

I don’t think it’s deliberate in this case but it’s a tactic of the ‘opposition’. Deflect, obfuscate and make false equivalence.
We’re not taking about Olympic medals, we’re talking about systemic racism.

You was the one that said my comment was racist when it wasn't. Just jumping on the train with all the others. What I said was stereotypical not racist.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm seeing lots of slogans and soundbites from all sides

But what I would rather see is practical solutions to the problems that are undoubtedly out there,

until then, we are just going round in circles

I fully agree. It's what I'm trying to put over here however we cannot find solutions until the problem is fully understood in non emotional clarity.

 

[hovis]

Alan Wells.

Ssshhhhhh?. It doesn't support my argument!

 

[Papas1982]

That's a bit subjective. I'm sure if you asked anyone, they would say they had a reasoned opinion. Even those we disagree with.

My point was about demographics. If you are old, white and male, you are more likely to be right-wing and xenophobic.

Of course labelling someone without knowing them at all isn't even slightly similar to racism is it.....

For me a major issue is the lack of trust from both sides. Imo racism blatantly isn't as bad as it was when I was a kid, or my dad was. That's not to say its good enough now.

But, when I've discussed it face to face with friends who I know have faced prejudice. It's 20 year old memories that they use as their fuel. So they treat/get wound up during the discussion and presume the people they're talking to are the same as the arse holes 20 years ago. When in fact they aren't.

 

[DanFST]

I think half the problem is, nowadays if you don't appear to conform to the letter to a particular cause you are in the wrong, take BLM for instance, someone has a different take on it and they instantly get labelled as being racist, it's all over the pages of this thread in a subtle way.
If you're argument differs in any way to mine, sorry you're a racist and up go the stupid memes which try to further point the finger that I am right and you are an ignorant racist.
It seems gone are the days of reasonable discussion and debate, everyone gets labelled in some way or other.

I don't think I've seen anyone called a racist on here.

But you are totally right. your example above definitely happens, I got called a racist on Twitter t'other day! Also we have people boycotting Sainsbury's and various tea brands on the other side. Idiots in all walks of life, with lots of different views unfortunately!