Ban for Justin Thomas?
- Thread starter rudebhoy
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sweaty sock
Hacker
You have to draw a line somewhere, if the pga draws it here then so be it.
It probably fits with a sport who most emotional protaganist, occasionally pumps his fist.
It probably fits with a sport who most emotional protaganist, occasionally pumps his fist.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I think a fine is in order, not a ban. He'll be gutted he said it and I'm sure he'll happily take any punishment that comes his way. I'm sorry to admit that I did exactly the same thing once, so I understand where he's coming from (difference being I wasn't on TV). Several years ago I missed a putt, and said the same thing he's said - immediately I was shocked at myself. I never use that word directed at anyone else, I would never even think it about someone - it's like in the heat of the moment your brain has a Tourette's moment and just gives you the wrong word to say before you can do anything about it. I was shocked that I'd said it and immediately apologised to the other players. So I can understand the position he's in, it's as if your own brain lets you down for a second, basically. It doesn't mean he's a homophobe, and if he's like I was in the same situation, he'll have a long hard look at himself to make sure a word like that doesn't come out again. A fine for using offensive language is all that's required.
After all, the only time you're allowed to say that word is when you're singing Fairytale Of New York. Then it's fine.
After all, the only time you're allowed to say that word is when you're singing Fairytale Of New York. Then it's fine.
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lobthewedge
Challenge Tour Pro
Feel sorry for jt.
He clearly muttered it to himself and dont think for a second he holds any offensive views, but he will (and is) getting hammered for this.
He has apologised and will definitely learn from it.
Forgive the kid and move on.
He clearly muttered it to himself and dont think for a second he holds any offensive views, but he will (and is) getting hammered for this.
He has apologised and will definitely learn from it.
Forgive the kid and move on.
SteveJay
Head Pro
Or when the wife asks me what I fancy for dinner this evening!!
sunshine
Well-known member
Even this is becoming increasingly less acceptable. I noticed this Christmas most radio stations played the inoffensive "you're cheap and you're haggard" version. Even Absolute radio, which always used to play the original version, has now caved in. For many people, this is a bit sad, but it's just a fact of life that attitudes change, and so does what's acceptable.
This thread has certainly shown some really outdated views, with many people's attitudes just catching up to the 80's.
Kellfire
Blackballed
Middle class, heterosexual white men say there’s no issue here.
Homosexual women have said there’s an issue here.
Why doesn’t this surprise me given the demographics on this forum?!
My stance is this - I don’t know if he considers being gay to be a negative thing. I used the expression he used as an insult on my mates when I was a kid. I wouldn’t use it now.
If I made a mistake at work, muttered that word under my breath and was heard by someone would I expect to be disciplined? Yes. I’d be damn well ashamed of myself.
Would I expect to be fired or anything? No, but I’d expect a formal letter placed on my file.
Should he be banned for one tournament? I think yes, he should. I think moments like this should be made clear as a “no more!” moment. The argument of, “Well so and so did this in the past, so Justin Thomas can’t be punished more harshly” is a bogus one. Things change as must punishments when a bigger statement needs to be made.
I quite like JT as a player and this won’t stop me rooting for him in the future because I feel he’s handled it well since it happened and I do believe his sincerity, albeit he may be just doing what he needs to for PR.
We can all make mistakes. We can try to learn from them to be better people or we could draw a line in the sand and say, “I won’t change just because you’re offended”. I know which path I’d prefer to go down.
Homosexual women have said there’s an issue here.
Why doesn’t this surprise me given the demographics on this forum?!
My stance is this - I don’t know if he considers being gay to be a negative thing. I used the expression he used as an insult on my mates when I was a kid. I wouldn’t use it now.
If I made a mistake at work, muttered that word under my breath and was heard by someone would I expect to be disciplined? Yes. I’d be damn well ashamed of myself.
Would I expect to be fired or anything? No, but I’d expect a formal letter placed on my file.
Should he be banned for one tournament? I think yes, he should. I think moments like this should be made clear as a “no more!” moment. The argument of, “Well so and so did this in the past, so Justin Thomas can’t be punished more harshly” is a bogus one. Things change as must punishments when a bigger statement needs to be made.
I quite like JT as a player and this won’t stop me rooting for him in the future because I feel he’s handled it well since it happened and I do believe his sincerity, albeit he may be just doing what he needs to for PR.
We can all make mistakes. We can try to learn from them to be better people or we could draw a line in the sand and say, “I won’t change just because you’re offended”. I know which path I’d prefer to go down.
hairball_89
Club Champion
Almost word for word, this.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
As it stands, he will be fined by the PGA. PGA policy is they do not make the size of the fine public, so, like it or not, it's going to look like it's been swept under the carpet, which is not a good look for golf.
It's too late now, but the best course of action would have been to disqualify him after the 3rd round. That would have sent out a clear message.
It's too late now, but the best course of action would have been to disqualify him after the 3rd round. That would have sent out a clear message.
OnTour
Head Pro
People need to get over spur of the moment comments caught on camera. If we haven't learnt a hard lesson the last year this means zip. it's all bad news reported, time to smile and let things go.
Ethan
Money List Winner
It seems like the word in question is more casually used as a swear word/expletive in the US than over here, but it is very pejorative and should be stamped out. I suspect his quick retraction and apology has saved him from a ban, but a substantial behind the scenes fine is nailed on. He should also lob some money publicly to a suitable charity that fights homophobia.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Certainly don't agree with a ban, especially when it is almost certain that, when taken into context, he had absolutely no intent of being homophobic. More than likely, it was an instinctive word he used, a word that has been associated with homophobia, but also for many become a generic word just to put down someone or yourself. However, a fine and a warning should send a strong message to him that it is not language that is appreciated, and that clearly if he continued to use that language, then I'd absolutely agree that there would be more of a reason for it to be considered offensive to others.
We seem to live in a society where people are happy to see other people severely punished, often for being guilty of uttering a certain buzzword. They are given no defence, and certainly context is completely ignored. Perhaps we'll be told it is for the good of society, and an aim to better equality. But, I wonder how much this attitude actually led to the rise of the right-wing, Trump, Brexit, etc, where many liberal / slightly right leaning people have been pushed further to the right as they grow more and more frustrated about having to become quieter and quieter, or risk saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and their lives changing in an instant.
Also, pretty sure a 1 or 2 tournament ban would be pretty meaningless? Professionals play a relatively low percentage of tournaments from the full calendar. So, he could just slightly adjust his schedule so that he feels no real impact at all. A ban would only hurt him if it was a very long ban, or it only applied to Majors / WGC's / Ryder Cup. How many people would genuinely criticise the PGA for being overly extreme in their punishment, comparing what he said with other golfers who have said / done something and received no punishment and effectively trivialising homophobia (i.e. there is no doubt that some unsavoury types will say "if severe punishments will be dished out for minor transgressions, I might as well go to town on my evil thoughts so at least I get my money's worth from any punishment).
We seem to live in a society where people are happy to see other people severely punished, often for being guilty of uttering a certain buzzword. They are given no defence, and certainly context is completely ignored. Perhaps we'll be told it is for the good of society, and an aim to better equality. But, I wonder how much this attitude actually led to the rise of the right-wing, Trump, Brexit, etc, where many liberal / slightly right leaning people have been pushed further to the right as they grow more and more frustrated about having to become quieter and quieter, or risk saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and their lives changing in an instant.
Also, pretty sure a 1 or 2 tournament ban would be pretty meaningless? Professionals play a relatively low percentage of tournaments from the full calendar. So, he could just slightly adjust his schedule so that he feels no real impact at all. A ban would only hurt him if it was a very long ban, or it only applied to Majors / WGC's / Ryder Cup. How many people would genuinely criticise the PGA for being overly extreme in their punishment, comparing what he said with other golfers who have said / done something and received no punishment and effectively trivialising homophobia (i.e. there is no doubt that some unsavoury types will say "if severe punishments will be dished out for minor transgressions, I might as well go to town on my evil thoughts so at least I get my money's worth from any punishment).
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Would $490k do..?
Mandofred
Well-known member
Not quite a similar example, but....I've never viewed the world the same as other people......
If the next time you are driving you get caught doing 40 in a 30mph zone. You would normally get a fine just to get your attention. So....to really make a point of it.....let's ban everybody who gets a speeding ticket from driving (temporary or permanent, what the heck). No, that doesn't happen unless the speeding is soooooo horrible to be beyond anything close to acceptable. Now, if you get caught repeatedly speeding and "endangering" lives you might get that ban.
I think for some people "burn the witch!!" is the immediate answer (my apologies to witches...), why don't we just calm down and see if this is a pattern. If this is something that occurs regularly, yeah...zap him good. It doesn't appear to be.......he "seems" like a decent fellow. Let's not burn him unless we can prove he's a witch with repeated bad behavior.
**Note**....I have nothing against witches.....seems cool to be one though......
If the next time you are driving you get caught doing 40 in a 30mph zone. You would normally get a fine just to get your attention. So....to really make a point of it.....let's ban everybody who gets a speeding ticket from driving (temporary or permanent, what the heck). No, that doesn't happen unless the speeding is soooooo horrible to be beyond anything close to acceptable. Now, if you get caught repeatedly speeding and "endangering" lives you might get that ban.
I think for some people "burn the witch!!" is the immediate answer (my apologies to witches...), why don't we just calm down and see if this is a pattern. If this is something that occurs regularly, yeah...zap him good. It doesn't appear to be.......he "seems" like a decent fellow. Let's not burn him unless we can prove he's a witch with repeated bad behavior.
**Note**....I have nothing against witches.....seems cool to be one though......
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Wasn’t the word in question only just removed from a well known Christmas song?
hairball_89
Club Champion
As recently as 1992, when Kirsty McColl changed the lyrics herself. yes. That is how long that word has been deemed unacceptable. Only nigh on 30 years.
Traminator
Well-known member
It wasn't "removed" 30 years ago and everyone with a braincell knows that ffs.
Lots of songs have alternative lyrics to offer radio stations a "cleaner" option, it is stating fact that it is only very recently that the amended version has generally become the "acceptable" mainstream version.
And then of course when 99.999% of people sing it they make a point of belting out the proper words because frankly we are able to distinguish between meaningless words in a classic song and personal insults.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
On the link it agrees with Hairball
:-
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
No it doesn’tOn the link it agrees with Hairball
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