SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
...and Andy hasn't bottled it - another straight sets wiin.
Are We a Nation of Bottlers?
- Thread starter jimbob.someroo
- Start date
mikee247
Challenge Tour Pro
Im not sure as a nation we can be called "bottlers" any more.
We have had so much success in sport as a whole over the last few years we are far from a failure. Look at the Olympics and all those massive individual achievements from the likes of the cyclists, Bradders, Hoy and the rowers wining gold and Murray winning a major and a gold etc etc. Not to mention the Para Olympics!! The cricket team winning the Ashes in Aus and a relative new and young rugby team producing excellent results. Our golfers are some of the worlds best, lest we forget what Mr Rose did a couple of weeks ago......and the Ryder cup team having lots of British/N Irish players in it.
We are so much better in developing and maintaining talent than we used to be and some times we need not to listen to the overly critical press and actually praise ourselves for doing bloody well. I think we have fine future as a country of sport but need to keep the finger on the pulse and the funds available for development. :thup: As for the footballers.... bunch of wasters in my opinion over paid prima donners with no incentive/interest or passion to play for their country. Cant see them winning anything for at least 10 years or till the system changes
We have had so much success in sport as a whole over the last few years we are far from a failure. Look at the Olympics and all those massive individual achievements from the likes of the cyclists, Bradders, Hoy and the rowers wining gold and Murray winning a major and a gold etc etc. Not to mention the Para Olympics!! The cricket team winning the Ashes in Aus and a relative new and young rugby team producing excellent results. Our golfers are some of the worlds best, lest we forget what Mr Rose did a couple of weeks ago......and the Ryder cup team having lots of British/N Irish players in it.We are so much better in developing and maintaining talent than we used to be and some times we need not to listen to the overly critical press and actually praise ourselves for doing bloody well. I think we have fine future as a country of sport but need to keep the finger on the pulse and the funds available for development. :thup: As for the footballers.... bunch of wasters in my opinion over paid prima donners with no incentive/interest or passion to play for their country. Cant see them winning anything for at least 10 years or till the system changes
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Eye, we we well and truly bottled the Olympics didn't we.
Robobum
Money List Winner
Is bottler a fair description for anyone who gives absolutely everything they have ON THE DAY and come up short?
Not for me - folk who have never been in that position use the word too freely.
Those that dedicate every moment of their life to it are the only ones who truly know whether they have the stomach for the fight. If they continually put themselves in that position and fail to get it over the line then I'd say they have bottle in abundance but perhaps they just aren't quite as good as the person(s) they cam up against that day.
Not for me - folk who have never been in that position use the word too freely.
Those that dedicate every moment of their life to it are the only ones who truly know whether they have the stomach for the fight. If they continually put themselves in that position and fail to get it over the line then I'd say they have bottle in abundance but perhaps they just aren't quite as good as the person(s) they cam up against that day.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Nope, as stated in the original post.
Foxholer
Blackballed
^ This!
Robson came through under exactly the same sort of circumstances, reversed, on Saturday. Plenty of bottle there! I'm sure she is going to be quite a star, but today's loss does show some weaknesses that were masked in earlier rounds. Generally, there is more, or certainly easier, lessons to be learnt from a loss in Tennis than a 'failure' in golf
What does tend to happen, and it didn't in this case, was the Press over-hype achievements, so create an unrealistic expectation of success. It's pretty natural for them. and BBC certainly did imo, to put additional pressure of expectation on locals - even simply by having a greater number of interviews and being more enthusiastic about prospects - which certainly doesn't help.
And I've just watched Tommy Haas go from 4-2 up in set 2 to lose 4 games in a row. don't think anyone would consider Haas a bottler!
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Agreed, and I haven't once questioned Robson's desire or work rate. She was brilliant on Saturday and I think she gave as much as she could today and it certainly wasn't a lack of will to win that cost her.
I just got that same nervous feeling that she wasn't going to be able to see it through from such a good position that I get when I watch an English football team taking penalties. They're certainly not trying to mess it up, but they don't always appear as clinical as some of our international cousins.
To be honest, I think we do pretty well on a global scale to have athletes competing at the highest levels of most (if not all) sports. It would just be great to see us take it to the next level in a sport in a way that Jamaica has with sprinting or Spain have with several sports (football, tennis, F1, cycling) over the last few years.
Again, not taking anything away from any of our athletes accomplishments in any sport, but would be great to be able to cheer on a GB team / player confident that they were going to succeed.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I guess one test of the question would be 'what sports are we crap at when we should expect to be good or at least competitive'?
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
I'm not saying this to be an arse, but I think we should be better at tennis as a nation. Murray is essentially a one off in our recent past and is the only British player in the top 100 rankings. We host potentially the most coveted major tourney and the sport is played in almost all schools at some point, yet, other than Murray in the last few years, we're pretty off the pace on a global scale.
As I said, we've got 1 player in the top 100 men's rankings.
Spain - 13
France - 12
USA - 8
Czech Republic - 4
Germany - 6
Russia - 6
Italy - 5
With the exception of the USA and Russia, it's not like we have millions less people and I'm sure we're investing as much if not more as some of these countries into the sport, yet before Andy Murray, we hadn't won a major tourney since Fred Perry in the 30's!!!
Foxholer
Blackballed
That's a different question altogether.
Though possibly one worth asking.
Tennis has been one - and it takes 12 years or more to turn around which is not something the British system tends to tolerate.
Golf is actually another, though Justin Rose may have rescued attitudes to that, if nothing has changed at grass-roots level!
To me, the wholesale sell-off of sports fields has been the greatest crime of recent governments, causing huge, but unquantifiable, damage!
Tiger
Money List Winner
I'd say we are a nation of arm chair critics. Robo is spot on with his post. Anything other than a win is deemed below par for British athletes. Before the start of Wimbledon most people would have thought getting past the first round would have been good for Robson, she wins two matches and everyone's talking about her route to the final...
The press expect us to win the World Cup because we nearly beat Brazil in their own back yard, I think we may struggle to qualify...
It seems to me if you want the burden of unrealistic expectation placed upon your shoulders and if you want to be criticised every time you fall short of your goal, and you want accusations that you'd be better off employed by Adnams, Buxton or Robinsons then spend your life training to be a British athlete, surpass your rivals and make it onto the world stage where all the British kids that were rubbish at PE will mock you...
The press expect us to win the World Cup because we nearly beat Brazil in their own back yard, I think we may struggle to qualify...
It seems to me if you want the burden of unrealistic expectation placed upon your shoulders and if you want to be criticised every time you fall short of your goal, and you want accusations that you'd be better off employed by Adnams, Buxton or Robinsons then spend your life training to be a British athlete, surpass your rivals and make it onto the world stage where all the British kids that were rubbish at PE will mock you...
Foxholer
Blackballed
^ pretty much sums it up.
Though, without being too critical, demonstrates the lack of knowledge of armchair critics too. Robson won 3 matches!
Though, without being too critical, demonstrates the lack of knowledge of armchair critics too. Robson won 3 matches!
Tiger
Money List Winner
^ pretty much sums it up.
Though, without being too critical, demonstrates the lack of knowledge of armchair critics too. Robson won 3 matches!
Knew she'd won through to round four but it was after her 2nd round win that everyone started getting excited
Evesdad
Tour Winner
I dont think we bottle it, football apart. I believe its more to do with thinking we are better than we are. The press don't help by building up all the hype but we're lapping it up. Then boom out early doors and the whole country jump on the bandwagon. English football is so far out of touch its unbelievable, youth teams knocked out without so much as a whimper, the full side struggling to qualify. Athletics is still riding the wave from the olympics along with cycling, cricket seems to be on the up buts thats about it. Money rules is the basic fault that is ruining sport in my opinion, we only have to look at Rory in our own sport.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Though, without being too critical, demonstrates the lack of knowledge of armchair critics too. Robson won 3 matches!
It actually perfectly demonstrates the point I was making in the first place which appears to have been lost throughout the thread.
She won three matches and played extremely well when there was much less pressure on her and little expectation to win. As soon as she had an obvious opportunity to progress from a position in which she should have at least won the first set (both at serving for the set and then at 5-2 in the tiebreak) she bottled it. Furthermore, she admitted this herself in her post match interview.
She starting thinking about the result rather than just playing her game and changed how she was playing - again as stated in her interview.
I've not once said that she should have won the whole game / or Wimbledon, and have applauded her throughout. All I've said is that as soon as the position of tenacious underdog was lost (not in her position in the press, but in the actual position in the match) she panicked.
Tiger
Money List Winner
Still fundamentally disagree with you Jim. Pressure is something all sports men and women of all nations face. It is a natural. Are British people more susceptible? No. Does the British public and media increase the liklihood that this kind of pressure will be felt? Absolutely.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Agree with you here (other than the spelling of likelihood
)I don't know, guess it's mainly pessimism on my part but would just really love to see us take games by the scruff of the neck when it gets nervy.
Would also love to see Robson progress and really challenge the elite in the game but as I said earlier in the thread, I don't think her youth is a good enough reason for not doing so at the moment. I know I mentioned a few of the women that had won majors when younger than Laura earlier in the thread but just having a look now and pretty much every great female tennis player had won a big tourney by at least 22. Fingers crossed for her over the next few years but I'm sure the added weight of the British press isn't going to be massively helpful!
Happy to disagree though
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Brilliant summation ... :thup:
also true ..
We had a football game on here at the weekend my county Kildare got well beaten by Dublin , some of the comments about the Kildare players were mad , they arent good enough , they should be ashamed , they bottled it against the BIG team , they should pack it in ..
My Reply , our amateur sports men train all through the winter in snow , sleet & rain , they train 4 times a week & maybe play a practice game aswell , so if you want criticise them do what they do first , put in the effort they have put in then say they havent tried hard enough , each of them went out to win that day but were beaten by a better team , its the same with all sports , there can only be one winner from alot of competitors ..
been beaten by someone better is far from being a bottler , if that word even belongs anywhere
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
A million miles from the original point. Absolutely nothing wrong with losing to a better team / player. However, had your team been 4-0 up with 10 minutes to go, and lost 5-4, I imagine your assessment of their performance would have been different.
Foxholer
Blackballed
While there may be 1 point I agree with and that her coach should also take up (the approach at 5-4 and in T/B), I think most of your conclusions are rubbish!
It was actually the getting the number of wins wrong that I was referring to, not actually how far she got - which according to her ranking is about right - maybe 1 round better than would be expected.
Of course, it'll all be forgotten in a week - until same time next year!
