Any HR/Redundancy Experts on here?

[AmandaJR]

So Google isn't my friend and can't find the answer to my question. To set the scene and timeline as I understand it (375 redundancies)...

Joint Consultation up to 45 days.
Individual Consultation for those deemed at risk up to 30 days.
Then the redundancy notice period is 1 week for each year of employment to a maximum of 12 weeks.

So...we are all being told (all on the same timeline except for notice periods/length of service) that we will qualifiy for redundancy on 31/12/20 and that is when our notice period will expire.

Is that allowed? We all thought it was 45 days max, 30 days max and then whatever our own individual notice period would be and then receive redundancy payment and leave.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm perhaps not grasping this but are the company not being more generous than expected? They could have served notice later but this gives people a chance to look for work for longer, whilst being in work? Clearly there can be other angles to this but I am trying to see the positives.

In terms of can they do it, I'm afraid I can't help. ACAS are probably a good starting point though. Their website is pretty good and I think they offer some level of free advice.

 

[AmandaJR]

I'm perhaps not grasping this but are the company not being more generous than expected? They could have served notice later but this gives people a chance to look for work for longer, whilst being in work? Clearly there can be other angles to this but I am trying to see the positives.

In terms of can they do it, I'm afraid I can't help. ACAS are probably a good starting point though. Their website is pretty good and I think they offer some level of free advice.

You might think so and for sure that's how it's been dressed up BUT it was not part of the original announcement. They have grossly underestimated the amount of work that is currently processed and how hard it is going to be to move that to another group company. Not so much IT and Finance but hugely when it comes to Sales and Distribution. I'm convinced originally we'd all have been out the door as soon as legally possible but now they see the task at hand they're trying to delay the handover for as long as possible. I would have hoped they would have offered enhanced packages for anyone willing to see it through to the end of the year rather than trying to convince us it's for their "valued colleagues"

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Okay, I see the angle now.

Whatever happens I hope you are not going to be working more than your hours, more than is healthy. I've seen your other posts and working yourself into the ground for a company that is making you redundant makes no sense. Do your job but look after yourself. If they are making a mess of this that is their fault, not yours.

 

[AmandaJR]

Okay, I see the angle now.

Whatever happens I hope you are not going to be working more than your hours, more than is healthy. I've seen your other posts and working yourself into the ground for a company that is making you redundant makes no sense. Do your job but look after yourself. If they are making a mess of this that is their fault, not yours.

Thanks. Today was the first time I sat back a bit and took a few breaks. The others are doing 8-5, 5 days a week and it's tough on them all. Working from home is better than the office as less travel clearly but also the moral is rock bottom and it would be an all day bitch-fest!

 

[harpo_72]

Okay went through this last year.
You get the meeting - your highlighted as at risk.
Consultation period starts, you have several opportunities possibly.
1. Take redundancy
2. Take another role in the organisation- same level or lower (no one is allowed up the ladder)
The redundancy package can be a payment in lieu of notice period ... can be based on individual contract/ service time. Then they can follow the government’s minimum pay out scheme .. ACAS will have all of this one their site.

Do you need to be in for the 30 days of consultation? Depends what your manager says, depends on what you choose to do next ... I spent mine prepping for a role change and had it in the bag after a week.
If you go down this route you are on probation and this has official procedures.. formal notice periods and behaviours that must be followed.
Straight redundancy.. tell them you have dedicated your time on a job search .. arguing with that is pretty low. The consultation period will be a whole load of meetings, I found this soul destroying and it sapped my confidence.. HR bullied away. But just because they are HR they don’t know the rules .. so if it doesn’t sound right talk to ACAS

 

[AmandaJR]

Thanks. The office is closing and functions being transferred to other group companies (Sheffield for Sales). I assume they may offer a job there - unlikely anyone will take that up.

It is already soul destroying for sure and drags on and on with so little progress it seems. There is a meeting today with employee reps so will see what comes out of that.

It's not helped that we are so busy it's crazy. Never in my 28 years have we been in such a state of order backlog. So with all this going on we have our share of stroppy customers to deal with too. You can imagine how tempting it is to tell them to go forth!

 

[Robster59]

I can sympathise with you. My son called about a month ago to say that most of the functions his particular office in the company covers is being transferred to India!. Considering that many companies are pulling their support back to the UK that was surprising in the least. People had to apply for the few jobs that were left in the UK and the rest basically had nowhere to go. He is in the process of buying a house and so his stress levels at the moment are at an unbelievable high.
For me sometimes, there is no logic as to why companies do this. There is someone in the company sometimes who want to make their mark and come up with this short-term money saving scheme. In the longer term, it almost never seems to work.
I hope you get sorted out.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Thanks. The office is closing and functions being transferred to other group companies (Sheffield for Sales). I assume they may offer a job there - unlikely anyone will take that up.

It is already soul destroying for sure and drags on and on with so little progress it seems. There is a meeting today with employee reps so will see what comes out of that.

It's not helped that we are so busy it's crazy. Never in my 28 years have we been in such a state of order backlog. So with all this going on we have our share of stroppy customers to deal with too. You can imagine how tempting it is to tell them to go forth!

In my last job I was at a company that were going through a total meltdown. They lost control of production, warehousing and despatch. All of that adds up to carnage and I was part of the dept that dealt with customers . I was making myself quite ill trying to manage at the level I wanted to maintain until one of the directors took me to one side. In effect he said do your hours but no more. Do your best but accept that at the moment you can not do everything perfectly. Better to deal with every customer on a 7/10 basis than 50% at 10/10. Look after yourself.

A weight was lifted from me after that and I went into Zen mode. You can't control the carnage so don't try to. It is not your fault that customers are being let down so don't try to take the burden. Be honest with customers, don't cover for the company. Just as important, as you are working yourself into the ground, remember the company is making you redundant and will not give two hoots about what you are going though right now.

All of the above made looking for another job psychologically quite easy for me, it should do for you as well (although I accept now is not an easy time to be job hunting).

 

[AmandaJR]

I am fortunate that I don't need to work so the new job element is a what will be will be and something may or may not turn up.

We have to keep the information confidential from customers as they know many will be very unhappy as we have very good relationships with them.

I'm worrying less for sure as it will drag on as long as they see fit and not much I can do to alter that (assuming they are doing it all by the book). I'm earning more and can buy more guitars!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I've got my consultation meeting tomorrow, seems a waste of time to me really. They have made it quite clear I'm going, don't see the point of sitting there while someone patronizes me saying how 'we will help you find another job' blah blah blah. I'll be glad to see the back of them, nothing but lies from them since i was TUPE'd across last year. It's also put me off buying anything that supports the Indian economy including takeaways

 

[chrisd]

I'm earning more and can buy more guitars!

Buying new clubs is the way forward Amanda, buying guitars is so 1960's ?

 

[AmandaJR]

Buying new clubs is the way forward Amanda, buying guitars is so 1960's ?

I'm bored with golf - yikes! Guitar is my new love

 

[Hobbit]

Sorry Amanda, I'm 2.5 years away from doing this sort of thing, and I'd hate to give you duff info. Like LT alluded to, its nice to get a bit longer notice... but that's only if you are definitely being shown the door.

If you already know the future structure, i.e. your dept is being moved to Sheffield, you pretty much know the outcome. My question to them would be, "thanks for the extended notice, but if I take up a job offer now will I lose the redundancy payment." If the answer is yes, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Take a job and guaranteed income or wait out the redundancy period and take the money.

You'd be going into a job market that may well be saturated with applicants. You need a little more clarity on what happens if you get a job offer before the end of the consultation period. And if I was a cynic I might suggest the extended notice/consultation period is so that people will get another job and the redundancy payments will be reduced... but that's just me being cynical.

Good luck.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

We have to keep the information confidential from customers as they know many will be very unhappy as we have very good relationships with them.

Sorry Amanda, but why do you have to keep it quiet and why shouldnt their customers express their unhappiness?
Isn't it just corporate cake and eat it time?
Surely if your company was that concerned about it's relationships with it's existing customers it would have considered that before deciding you were to be let go.

If it were me in your shoes I wouldn't be keeping it confidential nor would I be doing everything I could to help the company out. They've deemed you surplus to requirements, so let them suck on it.

 

[AmandaJR]

Sorry Amanda, I'm 2.5 years away from doing this sort of thing, and I'd hate to give you duff info. Like LT alluded to, its nice to get a bit longer notice... but that's only if you are definitely being shown the door.

If you already know the future structure, i.e. your dept is being moved to Sheffield, you pretty much know the outcome. My question to them would be, "thanks for the extended notice, but if I take up a job offer now will I lose the redundancy payment." If the answer is yes, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Take a job and guaranteed income or wait out the redundancy period and take the money.

You'd be going into a job market that may well be saturated with applicants. You need a little more clarity on what happens if you get a job offer before the end of the consultation period. And if I was a cynic I might suggest the extended notice/consultation period is so that people will get another job and the redundancy payments will be reduced... but that's just me being cynical. Good luck.

I'd say astute rather than cynical and it is something that has been muted in phone conversations with other employees. It's not been a nice place to work for a long time and obviously much worse now. We're all professional and hard working and it pains us to see the state of things. I'm doing admin work to try and get a better system going in terms of handling the order queue but the queue is at best static and at worst growing. We are all going and that's 100% as we have been told all counter propsals to closure have been rejected.

Sorry Amanda, but why do you have to keep it quiet and why shouldnt their customers express their unhappiness?
Isn't it just corporate cake and eat it time?
Surely if your company was that concerned about it's relationships with it's existing customers it would have considered that before deciding you were to be let go.

If it were me in your shoes I wouldn't be keeping it confidential nor would I be doing everything I could to help the company out. They've deemed you surplus to requirements, so let them suck on it.

I agree and I think my colleagues are all getting tired of letting them have their cake and eat it BUT also don't want to risk anything that might impact their redundancy. There is over 100 years service so lots of money for most riding on it.

Last few days I've been more resigned to waiting and seeing what develops without expecting anything except delay and more BS...less stressful to expect nothing and get little!!

 

[harpo_72]

This happened to me on my first redundancy. They announced it a year before then had to offer a sweetener to keep us on for the completion of the season. Some guy left some of us stayed but got roles. So play the game that suits you. Remember there is no emotion and you don’t owe them anything.

 

[AmandaJR]

This happened to me on my first redundancy. They announced it a year before then had to offer a sweetener to keep us on for the completion of the season. Some guy left some of us stayed but got roles. So play the game that suits you. Remember there is no emotion and you don’t owe them anything.

They should have handled it that way but now everyone feels they're taking the mickey as they need us longer than they arrogantly first thought!