And, we're off.....2016/17

[ColchesterFC]

Name me 10 better managers in GB from the last 20 years? Think hes comfortably in the top managers that have been in GB.

As for being the best at Arsenal, well yes at least since the 1930s, Chapman was something special though on all accounts

Why only from the last 20 years? The original point was about SAF being one of the best if not the best ever not just from recent times. If Wenger had left Arsenal 10 years ago then he would probably have been considered one of the top 10 managers that have worked in the UK but the last 10 years have tarnished those times. Off the top of my head I'd put SAF, Maureen, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein, Alf Ramsey, Brain Clough, Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Pep Guardiola above him of those that have worked in the UK. And possibly controversially Hiddink and Van Gaal as well, not so much for what they did here but what they did previously in other countries. Even Walter Smith won more trophies but that was at Rangers with less competition so I guess the quality of opposition also needs to be considered.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Why only from the last 20 years? The original point was about SAF being one of the best if not the best ever not just from recent times. If Wenger had left Arsenal 10 years ago then he would probably have been considered one of the top 10 managers that have worked in the UK but the last 10 years have tarnished those times. Off the top of my head I'd put SAF, Maureen, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein, Alf Ramsey, Brain Clough, Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Pep Guardiola above him of those that have worked in the UK. And possibly controversially Hiddink and Van Gaal as well, not so much for what they did here but what they did previously in other countries. Even Walter Smith won more trophies but that was at Rangers with less competition so I guess the quality of opposition also needs to be considered.

Moyes?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The only positive from uniteds result today, there fans haven't got too far to get home

 

[ColchesterFC]

Moyes?

Only for a Liverpool fan. You'd probably like to add Mike Walker and Roberto Martinez to the list as well.

 

[Liverbirdie]

that was down to the fa, not fergie. surely?

genuine question. Do you not rate fergie at all? Do you believe it was alol bulky tactics? No skill?

i mean, for him to have got to a point where his voice mattered, surely it took great skill to get there.

As to the legacy he left Moyes. That lays with the board. Look how they've backed LvG and Mourinho since.

All footballers and managers are selfish. They consider themselves first. I'm not sure how leaving a championship winning team can be a bad thing.

Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?

 

[One Planer]

Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?

Are club captains allowed leeway when talking to a referee?

I agree with what you say BTW, just looking for a rational toward it.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I turned it to you because you's are worse than Utd, what about the game V Chelsea in CL when you were awarded the non goal that Garcia scored?

We have been worse than United over the years for decisions - yeah right, maybe as a blue you dont notice theirs, as much.

 

[Papas1982]

Just a quick question - do you think Rooney gets reffereed the same as all other premiership players, or are allowances made for him in the way that he can berate refs 10-15 times a game, and still never get booked for dissent?

i think dissent isn't taken seriously by the refs.
That being said, id attribute the leniency more to him being englands great hope (rightly or wrongly) than the badge he wears at the weekend.

 

[Liverbirdie]

But isn't a large part of that because in most games the ball spent 80% of the time in the opposition half and was very rarely in the United box. In the season with Moyes they weren't as dominant and therefore the opposition got the ball in the United box more often.Yes they got their fair share of decisions that went their way but you're more likely to get given penalties and less likely to concede them if the ball is in the opposition penalty area. Look at the seasons when Chelsea were dominant. They were getting 11 or 12 penalties for them each year and only 2 or 3 against them.

As a general rule I agree with you.

When us, Arsenal, Chelsea you do tend to get more pemalties (and decisions), but no matter what in Man U's era of success I think they got a good 20% more than what the others ever did.

Fergie bullied the refs, linesmen, referee officials, FA - you name it, and he got away with it in the main. His team were fantastic to watch and still would have won many, many trophies but IMHO they were also helped along the way. As has been seen since, are Man U getting anywhere near as much - no, and I dont think it was an old trafford thing, it was a Fergie thing.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Are club captains allowed leeway when talking to a referee?

I agree with what you say BTW, just looking for a rational toward it.

Yes some, and as I've said on many occasions Terry and Gerrard where also up there.

Rooney is head and shoulders above everyone though. There has also been new guidelines this year, with regards to dissent, but they still dont apply to Rooney.

 

[Liverbirdie]

i think dissent isn't taken seriously by the refs.
That being said, id attribute the leniency more to him being englands great hope (rightly or wrongly) than the badge he wears at the weekend.

Why isnt dissent taken seriously, especially this season?

He was England's great hope over 5 years ago, and think you are being very naive as to why.

 

[Papas1982]

Why isnt dissent taken seriously, especially this season?

He was England's great hope over 5 years ago, and think you are being very naive as to why.

It just never gets punished. Just like jostling at corners.

They make a big fuss for a few games at start of season, then back to usual. Im nit saying that's right. Just what seems to happen.

As as to my naivety. It's just as easy for be to say I think you're just showing you bias.

If rooney played for Saints I'm sure he would get in more trouble, but he doesn't and it's all part of a package. Playing for England's biggest club and arguably being England's best player for quite some time IMO makes it clear why he may be treated differently.

 

[Liverbirdie]

It just never gets punished. Just like jostling at corners.

They make a big fuss for a few games at start of season, then back to usual. Im nit saying that's right. Just what seems to happen.

As as to my naivety. It's just as easy for be to say I think you're just showing you bias.

If rooney played for Saints I'm sure he would get in more trouble, but he doesn't and it's all part of a package. Playing for England's biggest club and arguably being England's best player for quite some time IMO makes it clear why he may be treated differently.

But dissent is currently being cracked down on this season, as is jostling.

Ok, it might lessen in the next few months, but Rooney cant help himself as he has done it for 10 years, unpunished.

Rooney wouldn't get away with it anywhere else.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

We have been worse than United over the years for decisions - yeah right, maybe as a blue you dont notice theirs, as much.

All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.

 

[Papas1982]

But dissent is currently being cracked down on this season, as is jostling.

Ok, it might lessen in the next few months, but Rooney cant help himself as he has done it for 10 years, unpunished.

Rooney wouldn't get away with it anywhere else.

Well unfirtinateky there's no way to prove that to be right or wrong as he's probably not gonna play at another club. That said, I don't recall too many players being sent off for dissent.

Like i say, IMO it doesn't get handled properly for anyone.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.

Nobody said it was the only reason they were successful.

 

[Liverbirdie]

All the big clubs tend to get the decisions and maybe they got more than most, but making out that's the reason they were succesful is a joke.

I havent said thats the reason that they were successful. They had brilliant team(s) who were amongst the best teams and footballers ever seen in England, what I said is that I think they were helped by referees. Even if they werent they still would have won many leagues.:thup:

I think your reading what you think you want to, rather than what is being actually written by me.:thup:

You've changed your tune, what happened to the tired old untrue cliche that it evens........

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nobody said it was the only reason they were successful.

Fergie was worth 12 points :rofl: don't remember ever seeing him in the starting 11, good job he didn't sign Cech, with his 10 and Fergies 12 they'd had the League won in March :clap:

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I havent said thats the reason that they were successful. They had brilliant team(s) who were amongst the best teams and footballers ever seen in England, what I said is that I think they were helped by referees. Even if they werent they still would have won many leagues.:thup:

I think your reading what you think you want to, rather than what is being actually written by me.:thup:

You've changed your tune, what happened to the tired old untrue cliche that it evens........

You answered my answer to Stu, I'm back to the original point. I'm not the one moaning about decisions for other clubs, Everton get some decisions and lose some decisions, yesterday was a perfect example, just don't think the decisions and Fergies 12 points were the reason they were succesful.

 

[Liverbirdie]

To even have the gall to ask a referee to do this, shows how much he felt he was untouchable:-

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ot-his-way-with-referees-at-Manchester-United