And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[sawtooth]

So you’d have booked the defender last night but not given a penalty?

Not necessarily, if it was a borderline case of a foul I maybnot have given anything.

If a last defender dives and tries to save the ball with his hand that was obviously a yard wide of the goal there is grounds to book the player , even send the man off but to give a penalty? I’m not sure that’s fair , the ref in that case has created an advantage (to the attacking side) that simply did not exist.

 

[sawtooth]

In the example given, a player would get a red card for striking the opponent and the ref should award a direct free kick (penalty in this case as it was in the area). That's laid down in the laws and it would only be the use of VAR to highlight the incident with the ball well away from where it took place that would be the biggest issue

Yeah I know those are the rules Homer but I am questioning why free kicks and pens are given automatically without evaluating the whole situation. Common sense and fairness should play into decisions especially when you can slow things down and analyse carefully with VAR.

 

[Piece]

Football rules are seriously flawed.

That ball was ending up in row z, it should not matter if the ref deemed it to be deliberate or not. With VAR he would be able to see that and not award the pen IMO.

VAR should be a massive help but it would appear that it is not being used correctly. It should provide the ref more data points to aid his decision, ultimately it should not make the decision for him.

If he looks at that video again and thinks it’s a close call ( which it obviously is) then consider where the ball is going and what would have happened if his arm did not make contact? What did Utd actually lose as a result of contact? The answer is nothing. No pen end of.

Your argument loses credibility at the first hurdle. Asking refs to make another opinioned decision on top of another is asking for trouble and far more inconsistencies. Yes the Utd player's shot was probably going over, but who's to say 100%? I bet we all thought with 100% certainty that VVD's miscued shot was disappearing into the Kop against Everton...we all know what happened after that. What's the degree of certainty of going over? Row Z? Row M? Row AA? Just over? Do we need Hawkeye?! All silly in my opinion, just keep it binary as it is. It's either a handball or not, irrelevant of where the ball is going.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well it was certainly an interesting match

Great to see one oil rich club fail to buy the CL - one more to go

As for the pen

First thing - correct me if I’m wrong , i thought the whole idea of VAR was to ensure any “clear and obvious “ error was rectified, it’s pretty clear to me that for something to take 4 mins to clear up there is no way it can be clear and obvious and also you can see by the differing opinions and also reading and listening to Refs this morning many saying it’s no way a penalty - so why was VAR used

So for me as each match goes by that uses var it shows that it’s going to ruin the sport - how can the “biggest” sport in the world make a complete mess of something that many other sports have integrated very well

But what composure from Rashford and Lukaku ! Why the hell doesn’t he play like that more often - the guy has all the attributes to be a beast but just Heskey did too many times just goes missing and seems to get bullied away from the ball - if Lukaku played like that 90% of the time he would be outstanding

And then there is OGS -he is making it impossible for them to not give him the job but is it a bit like when Kenny or Di Matteo came into their respective clubs - good second half season but then when expectations were different they couldn’t match - so will they give it to him or still looking Pochettino

Edit - next year the rules are changing - that wouldn’t be a penalty for definite but a yellow card

 

[Tashyboy]

Thought both penalties against PSG and City were harsh, but a poor precedent was set during the City game. So had to be applied to the PSG game. Thank god it will be clearer next season 😳

Talking to a lifelong Utd fan on the way to golf Tuesday. He is buzzing at Utd since Maureen was sacked. Season ticket holder and been to every home and wa way game this season. Said it will kick off if Olly don't get the job full time. If it don't happen, think this forum will go into meltdown.

 

[Orikoru]

If you know and understand the hand ball rule then you'd know that was a penalty last night. As he jumps to block his arm is out away from his body, so that's considered a deliberate motion to block it with the arm. He's unlucky because I don't think he's intended to do it, but it is a penalty.

Those who say the rules need changing - I'm not sure how else you could define it really. The rule as it is now is easier to determine because it's purely a visual thing - if the arm is away from his body or not. If you change it say only intentional hand balls should be punished I think there would be too much grey area with refs trying to work out what was going through the defender's mind and whether he wanted to hand ball it or not, it would just be guesswork. And if you say all hand balls are punished, as others said, you'll have clever players just flicking it up at defenders' hands in the box when nothing else is on. The defenders would have to run round with their hands behind their back at all times (like they already do when blocking a cross).

 

[Tashyboy]

Well it was certainly an interesting match

Great to see one oil rich club fail to buy the CL - one more to go

As for the pen

First thing - correct me if I’m wrong , i thought the whole idea of VAR was to ensure any “clear and obvious “ error was rectified, it’s pretty clear to me that for something to take 4 mins to clear up there is no way it can be clear and obvious and also you can see by the differing opinions and also reading and listening to Refs this morning many saying it’s no way a penalty - so why was VAR used

So for me as each match goes by that uses var it shows that it’s going to ruin the sport - how can the “biggest” sport in the world make a complete mess of something that many other sports have integrated very well

But what composure from Rashford and Lukaku ! Why the hell doesn’t he play like that more often - the guy has all the attributes to be a beast but just Heskey did too many times just goes missing and seems to get bullied away from the ball - if Lukaku played like that 90% of the time he would be outstanding

And then there is OGS -he is making it impossible for them to not give him the job but is it a bit like when Kenny or Di Matteo came into their respective clubs - good second half season but then when expectations were different they couldn’t match - so will they give it to him or still looking Pochetino.

So easy to start an opinion by being bitter. Not sure if you have read the latest news phil but City have signed a deal for £650 million. None of it oil money. That is based on the success of a club. Seeing as City have won the most trophies in England since they won the FA cup v Stoke. Suppose that makes us attractive, where as your empty trophy cabinet don't. If I had a choice between an Oil club and a club whose fans attack buses. Not a hard decision is it. Guess who is being bitter. Don't make me feel good though. Mind I suppose it cannot be easy for you seeing your arch rivals going through.

 

[garyinderry]

Refs and the law makers seem to forget that football isn't played at 60 frames a second on film.

Players are in motion. The laws of physics are in play. When a player is shuffling sideways and then jumps to block a shot. There is places where an arm will go naturally in an attempt to stay upright. No one jumps naturally in the air without putting their arms out a bit to balance. They are not subbuteo figures.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you know and understand the hand ball rule then you'd know that was a penalty last night. As he jumps to block his arm is out away from his body, so that's considered a deliberate motion to block it with the arm. He's unlucky because I don't think he's intended to do it, but it is a penalty.

Those who say the rules need changing - I'm not sure how else you could define it really. The rule as it is now is easier to determine because it's purely a visual thing - if the arm is away from his body or not. If you change it say only intentional hand balls should be punished I think there would be too much grey area with refs trying to work out what was going through the defender's mind and whether he wanted to hand ball it or not, it would just be guesswork. And if you say all hand balls are punished, as others said, you'll have clever players just flicking it up at defenders' hands in the box when nothing else is on. The defenders would have to run round with their hands behind their back at all times (like they already do when blocking a cross).

Listening to Peter Walton last night he said the change coming in in June is the removal of the word deliberate, therefore in his opinion removing the doubt for Officials, certainly sounds odd, I believe the actual decision and rule will be released later this month.
As you say it sounds crazy!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Careful Tash, the, over, £400 million Klopp has spent doesn’t count as only oil money is wrong, and if you keep pushing, the Nett Spend table will come out.

 

[Kellfire]

oil oil oil

Of course it’s oil money, filtered through back channels by the owners so it appears legit.

 

[Dan2501]

Penalty for United for me, shouldn't have turned his back and left his arm there, lazy defending.

Superb composure from Rashford as well, absolute class penalty. Out of nowhere England seem to have a series of quality penalty takers - Kane, Rashford and Sterling have all stepped up and scored big penalties in recent weeks. Great to see. Also nice to see Big Rom get an opportunity and put in a class performance, obviously as an Everton fan I've seen the best of him, so it's good to see him finally show what he's capable of on the big stage.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

gg

Found your voice then - you were quiet recently when links of Citys potential banning from CL due to FFP - not long after you have already been punished because of financial irregularities- Well done on getting a big sponsor- I’m sure it will be above board like everything else at City has been - it would be a shame to have all that money but a possible transfer issue because of payments ( illegal of course ) made to Sancho

I have no doubt you will go on about the money spent on the area blah blah but that’s all through the same oil back door money as £1bn spent on buying all those trophies - maybe it’s the lack of grace or acceptance that the club is where it is because of oil money or the arrogance that because of that oil money they feel entitled to win as portrayed by yourself when you lost a few games and it was all whinging that things were going against you - City will continue to win trophies and break records but i think for most it will always be tainted

So yes when City do go out it will be a good day for the sport and the Comp just like last night when PSG went out

Edit - as you keep saying - some clubs have history and some clubs make history - you always forget that some clubs buy history

 

[Papas1982]

Yeah I know those are the rules Homer but I am questioning why free kicks and pens are given automatically without evaluating the whole situation. Common sense and fairness should play into decisions especially when you can slow things down and analyse carefully with VAR.

If he hadn't spread his arms out, but was determined to block it somehow got a leg to it for example, who's to say where a legit deflection would have gone.

He handballed it. Anything after that is irrelevant. I'm sure if arsenal got a penalty all honest fans would take it and not decree the oppositions poor luck as it was going over.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Of course it’s oil money, filtered through back channels by the owners so it appears legit.

No different to the Utd partner Gulf Oil then.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Every Club has dodgy links to sponsors or owners, so for people to try and continually drag Oil money up when talking about City is ridiculous, imo, it’s jealousy, a few years back it was all about Abramovich and his money.
City last year earned over £500 million in revenue.
They have increased it year on year, no Club is run as a Charity or for free by these owners and every Club has skeletons.
People should be careful what they wish for, your owners (insert 99% of Clubs) would sell out tomorrow to anyone for the right price.

Everton - Moshiri and his links
Utd - Glaziers, bought on loans.
LPool - Tibet Water?
Leics - Check their financial history.
City - Arabs.
Etc
Etc

 

[robinthehood]

Just watched the highlights and thats as clear a pen as you'll ever see. Thats the whole point of VAR, to pick these things up.

 

[Slime]

OMG the luck of Utd of old is back😳

OMG, the bitterness of sawtooth of old is back!

 

[pokerjoke]

All this talk of “let’s hope all the English clubs get through” for me is rubbish.
Hope Liverpool and City get knocked out,and it’s obvious others do to.

One of the best European nights last night but let’s not get carried away,although now I don’t think anyone will scrape Utd.

Ole will get the job I don’t think the fans would except him not getting it.
He has got the players believing anything is possible.

After seeing the penalty incident again many times it’s a defo.
As for the Var taking 4 minutes Phil it’s no surprise.
As I understand it the game goes on until the Var ref contacts the ref.
He then stops play and goes over to watch the replay.
Goes back on the pitch and signals his decision.
Then he has to control the team who surround him( obvious under the circumstances).
Then he has to clear the area( during this time Rashford is taking pellets.
The Rashford takes an unbelievable penalty as if he at the training ground.
Thank god he’s English because he is quality.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Every Club has dodgy links to sponsors or owners, so for people to try and continually drag Oil money up when talking about City is ridiculous, imo, it’s jealousy, a few years back it was all about Abramovich and his money.
City last year earned over £500 million in revenue.
They have increased it year on year, no Club is run as a Charity or for free by these owners and every Club has skeletons.
People should be careful what they wish for, your owners (insert 99% of Clubs) would sell out tomorrow to anyone for the right price.

Everton - Moshiri and his links
Utd - Glaziers, bought on loans.
LPool - Tibet Water?
Leics - Check their financial history.
City - Arabs.
Etc
Etc

If Everton ever reach the heady heights of meaningfully challenging for trophies, lets see if your as come-day go-day then.