And, we’re off.......2018/2019

Paul.

I know you love a good debate.

But your opinion is irrelevant here, as is mine (I'll remind you that I didn't think not was, in my opinion) :).

The referee is a professional who applies the rules as requested by the governing body.

People need to get over themselves.
 
huds1475 said:
Are you a professional arbiter of the rules of football?

If the answer is 'no', then your statement is an opinion.

The referees apply the rules as dictated by the ruling bodies. So their ruling is more valid than your opinion (which incidentally is the same as my opinion).

But as neither of us is a professional arbiter of the rules our opinion is irrelevant.

The rules say it's a pen, according to the governing body and the professional arbiter of the rules, so.its a pen.

Personally I think the rules would benefit from clearing up.

People are entitled to their opinion, but when something is governed by rules it's the rules, not opinion that counts.
Click to expand...

See post 9549 where I said “ I suppose it boils down to opinion, handball had to be deliberate”

I may not be a arbiter of the rules but I know and understand what handball is, in my opinion it’s not a pen, in the refs opinion it is.

If we can’t discuss it like grown adults then we might aswell finish it now, no point discussing it or any future football decisions because we’re not professional refs.

I’d agree the rules do need clearing up.
 
huds1475 said:
Paul.

I know you love a good debate.

But your opinion is irrelevant here, as is mine (I'll remind you that I didn't think not was, in my opinion) :).

The referee is a professional who applies the rules as requested by the governing body.

People need to get over themselves.
Click to expand...
What’s the point of a forum if it’s not to discuss or debate?

Whether I like to debate or not is irrelevant, the current rule is open to interpretation and that’s why it’s changing which in turn makes your reply to Stu incorrect.

Don’t worry about replying, I won’t engage you any further.:rolleyes:
 
huds1475 said:
Paul.

I know you love a good debate.

But your opinion is irrelevant here, as is mine (I'll remind you that I didn't think not was, in my opinion) :).

The referee is a professional who applies the rules as requested by the governing body.

People need to get over themselves.
Click to expand...

Who?
 
Football rules are seriously flawed.

That ball was ending up in row z, it should not matter if the ref deemed it to be deliberate or not. With VAR he would be able to see that and not award the pen IMO.

VAR should be a massive help but it would appear that it is not being used correctly. It should provide the ref more data points to aid his decision, ultimately it should not make the decision for him.

If he looks at that video again and thinks it’s a close call ( which it obviously is) then consider where the ball is going and what would have happened if his arm did not make contact? What did Utd actually lose as a result of contact? The answer is nothing. No pen end of.
 
sawtooth said:
Football rules are seriously flawed.

That ball was ending up in row z, it should not matter if the ref deemed it to be deliberate or not. With VAR he would be able to see that and not award the pen IMO.

VAR should be a massive help but it would appear that it is not being used correctly. It should provide the ref more data points to aid his decision, ultimately it should not make the decision for him.

If he looks at that video again and thinks it’s a close call ( which it obviously is) then consider where the ball is going and what would have happened if his arm did not make contact? What did Utd actually lose as a result of contact? The answer is nothing. No pen end of.
Click to expand...
What about when pens are given when the keeper or defender tackles a player who's blatantly lost control? Pens are still given then.
 
Having seen the game on telly, countless replays and analysis and it being shown again this morning, I can see how the ref using VAR would give it. The defender did himself no favours turning his back and waving the arm out and as was said, you could argue he wasn't in control and so the penalty would be right. I do think, like tackling as a dying art, defenders are going to be even more reluctant to put themselves directly in line for fear of it hitting an arm and VAR or a whistle happy ref giving a penalty. Would have been furious if it had been given against my side, even in a PL game.

However whichever way you cut it, a very depleted United side rewrote CL history with a great performance, aided by a couple of mistakes from PSG. Whatever Ole is doing with them is definitely working. Hopefully the other English sides can follow suit
 
Papas1982 said:
What about when pens are given when the keeper or defender tackles a player who's blatantly lost control? Pens are still given then.
Click to expand...

Maybe they shouldn’t be given now with VAR because ref will be able to see more clearly that ball was going out of play.

Otherwise ref is inadvertently and unfairly giving team an advantage that didn’t exist before his intervention.

Would cut out a lot of diving as well because a large amount of that occurs when player has already lost control of ball.

Refs should be more intelligent, take their time and assess the situation entirely before making decision. VAR is an important tool in that process but like I said it should not make the decision for him.
 
Beezerk said:
Yep, he was trying his luck IMO, knew exactly what he was doing by keeping his arm out. I don't really see what ll the bleating is about, clear pen all day long.
Click to expand...

2/4 English clubs through to champs league quarters aswell

Let’s get all of them through
 
sawtooth said:
Maybe they shouldn’t be given now with VAR because ref will be able to see more clearly that ball was going out of play.

Otherwise ref is inadvertently and unfairly giving team an advantage that didn’t exist before his intervention.

Would cut out a lot of diving as well because a large amount of that occurs when player has already lost control of ball.

Refs should be more intelligent, take their time and assess the situation entirely before making decision. VAR is an important tool in that process but like I said it should not make the decision for him.
Click to expand...

You’re hilarious.

Ok - let’s extrapolate your notion.

Team A are beating Team B 5-0.

One second before the final whistle, at the other end of the pitch from the ball, Team A defender punches striker from Team B.

Ref sees nothing. VAR (you have to assume VAR was being used for such incidents but go with me) does see it. Should the ref do nothing because the striker in Team B wouldn’t have had any advantage from not being punched?
 
Have the rules been changed in the last 24 hours, that I havent noticed.?

It doesnt matter where the ball is going.

It is for deliberate handball.

Refs have different opinions on seeing the same incident - we see that on a weekly basis.

Yours, the "arbiter" of doom. xx

If Man U were going to knock someone out, they couldnt have done it to a more horrible, cheating, "collection" of mercenaries, as PSG.(y)
 
Kellfire said:
You’re hilarious.

Ok - let’s extrapolate your notion.

Team A are beating Team B 5-0.

One second before the final whistle, at the other end of the pitch from the ball, Team A defender punches striker from Team B.

Ref sees nothing. VAR (you have to assume VAR was being used for such incidents but go with me) does see it. Should the ref do nothing because the striker in Team B wouldn’t have had any advantage from not being punched?
Click to expand...

No you get the yellow or red card.

You can issue cards without giving pens or free kicks, they’re not mutually exclusive.
 
Liverbirdie said:
Have the rules been changed in the last 24 hours, that I havent noticed.?

It doesnt matter where the ball is going.

It is for deliberate handball.

Refs have different opinions on seeing the same incident - we see that on a weekly basis.

Yours, the "arbiter" of doom. xx

If Man U were going to knock someone out, they couldnt have done it to a more horrible, cheating, "collection" of mercenaries, as PSG.(y)
Click to expand...

I’m sure you know that referees have discretion to determine what is deliberate. In this case he clearly keeps his arms out to make his body wider - so he’s deliberately using his arms to help stop the ball. Absolutely clear cut.
 
sawtooth said:
No you get the yellow or red card.

You can issue cards without giving pens or free kicks, they’re not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...
In the example given, a player would get a red card for striking the opponent and the ref should award a direct free kick (penalty in this case as it was in the area). That's laid down in the laws and it would only be the use of VAR to highlight the incident with the ball well away from where it took place that would be the biggest issue
 
Was it a Pen ? Under the letter of the law, yes. Do I agree with it ? I think I do. I’d accept it if it went against my team. Don’t jump with your arms out is the message to players.

As side note, I love how we beat (for me) the most awful, cheating whiny team in Europe. I bet EUFA are spewing that PSG, RM, Roma and potentially Juve are going out and the English teams are looking strong. If Liverpool do a job on Bayern that would be good too. They can’t blame Brexit for this 😊
 
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