all bunkers declared GUR

[rulie]

They can of course specify and identify all bunkers individually. Which is what we do by using a small blue flag. Our extreme situation only lasts for a day or two after the sluice gates open, when some flags are removed because the relevant bunker has a patch of 'dryish' sand

If all bunkers were identified with a small blue flag, I would suggest that the Committee is skirting the intent of the Rules.

 

[Swango1980]

If all bunkers were identified with a small blue flag, I would suggest that the Committee is skirting the intent of the Rules.

What is the intent of the rule then? What if Committee declared all but 1 bunker GUR? Or all but 2, or all but 3? How many bunkers do we think a Committee make GUR before they go against the intent of the rule?

 

[rulefan]

If all bunkers were identified with a small blue flag, I would suggest that the Committee is skirting the intent of the Rules.

As posted earlier:
There is no limit on the number of bunkers that can be taken ‘out of play’."

 

[rulie]

What is the intent of the rule then? What if Committee declared all but 1 bunker GUR? Or all but 2, or all but 3? How many bunkers do we think a Committee make GUR before they go against the intent of the rule?

No number available. Imo, it would depend on the intent of the Committee.

 

[Canfordhacker]

Given the torrential rain recently, we have had a couple of occasions when all bunkers were declared GUR.
The greens staff were diligently working to get them playable, and it was obvious on the way round that some had been restored and were playable.
So if you go in an obviously restored bunker, should you still take relief?

My opinion is that the rules state it, so you should to be fair to the field. But morally it seems right to play it as it lies then, pending the overall GUR being rescinded - probably the next day.

Thoughts?

 

[rulefan]

Given the torrential rain recently, we have had a couple of occasions when all bunkers were declared GUR.
The greens staff were diligently working to get them playable, and it was obvious on the way round that some had been restored and were playable.
So if you go in an obviously restored bunker, should you still take relief?

My opinion is that the rules state it, so you should to be fair to the field. But morally it seems right to play it as it lies then, pending the overall GUR being rescinded - probably the next day.

Thoughts?

If the rule is in force, follow it. The committee must not change the rules part way through a comp unless they know no one may have been affected.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Given the torrential rain recently, we have had a couple of occasions when all bunkers were declared GUR.
The greens staff were diligently working to get them playable, and it was obvious on the way round that some had been restored and were playable.
So if you go in an obviously restored bunker, should you still take relief?

My opinion is that the rules state it, so you should to be fair to the field. But morally it seems right to play it as it lies then, pending the overall GUR being rescinded - probably the next day.

Thoughts?

If the bunkers are all declared GUR then you can take relief until they are no longer declared GUR

Not sure what “morally” right is about but the morally right way is following the rules

 

[Tashyboy]

Quite frankly today was one of those days that I just wished I had not bloody played. 3/4 hr to drive 12 miles. A five hour plus round because four old farts thought a leisurely amble was fine. They were like a car towing a caravan ambling along saying “what a lovely day, the roads are quiet” without bothering to look behind they went in after the 14th hole which had taken 4 hrs . what tipped me over the edge was a bunker that was full of water. I fished a PPs ball out and another PP said “ because that don’t say GUR and there’s room to drop a ball, it’s a medal comp and you have to drop in the bunker”. It was the straw that broke the camels back for me. After having a crap day, it just seemed the club was happy to take comp money without seeing what parts of the course were unplayable.
And Yup I was rammel.

 

[Canfordhacker]

Not sure what “morally” right is about but the morally right way is following the rules

So on one day it wasn't a comp, but we were submitting rounds for handicap. So yes, we can follow the generic everything is GUR stipulation, use the rules to our advantage blah blah. It just felt that it would have been better to play the course as it should be where it was obvious the conditions had been rectified.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So on one day it wasn't a comp, but we were submitting rounds for handicap. So yes, we can follow the generic everything is GUR stipulation, use the rules to our advantage blah blah. It just felt that it would have been better to play the course as it should be where it was obvious the conditions had been rectified.

If the bunkers are deemed gur that’s the way the course is set up it doesn’t matter if they are halfway through sorting them out

 

[cliveb]

Quick question for the rules experts:

When there is a simple declaration that "all bunkers are GUR" (with no other clarification), does that mean they are compulsory GUR?
A few days ago I ended up in a bunker that was perfectly playable, and would have preferred to play out of the bunker than take relief.

 

[Steven Rules]

When there is a simple declaration that "all bunkers are GUR" (with no other clarification), does that mean they are compulsory GUR?

No

Addendum

Ideally, the Local Rule would be more expansive and declare the bunker(s) as 'GUR in the general area'.

For so-called bunker 'compulsory GUR', we'd be looking for wording like 'no play zone and GUR in the general area'.

 

[rulefan]

Quick question for the rules experts:

When there is a simple declaration that "all bunkers are GUR" (with no other clarification), does that mean they are compulsory GUR?
A few days ago I ended up in a bunker that was perfectly playable, and would have preferred to play out of the bunker than take relief.

The situation where all bunkers are declared GUR is not specifically prohibited but I would suggest there would be some justification in not making rounds handicap qualifiers as it could probably skew the Course Rating and Slope

​

​

F-16 Bunker Filled with Temporary Water​

Purpose. If a bunker or multiple bunkers are filled with temporary water, free relief under Rule 16.1c may not be sufficient to allow for fair play as players may be limited to taking maximum available relief or relief outside the bunker for one penalty stroke. A Committee can choose to treat certain bunkers as ground under repair in the general area so that free relief is allowed outside the bunker.

The Committee should only use this Local Rule for specifically identified bunkers and is not authorized to make a Local Rule providing generally that all bunkers filled with temporary water are ground under repair. The rationale for this is that individual bunkers may change from being completely flooded to partially flooded during the round, and it would be inappropriate for some players to get free relief from a bunker treated as ground under repair in the general area, whereas other players have to treat it as a bunker as it is not completely flooded at the time their ball is in it.

 

[rulie]

The situation where all bunkers are declared GUR is not specifically prohibited but I would suggest there would be some justification in not making rounds handicap qualifiers as it could probably skew the Course Rating and Slope

​

​

F-16 Bunker Filled with Temporary Water​

Purpose. If a bunker or multiple bunkers are filled with temporary water, free relief under Rule 16.1c may not be sufficient to allow for fair play as players may be limited to taking maximum available relief or relief outside the bunker for one penalty stroke. A Committee can choose to treat certain bunkers as ground under repair in the general area so that free relief is allowed outside the bunker.

The Committee should only use this Local Rule for specifically identified bunkers and is not authorized to make a Local Rule providing generally that all bunkers filled with temporary water are ground under repair. The rationale for this is that individual bunkers may change from being completely flooded to partially flooded during the round, and it would be inappropriate for some players to get free relief from a bunker treated as ground under repair in the general area, whereas other players have to treat it as a bunker as it is not completely flooded at the time their ball is in it.

I read this differently. The Committee is not authorized to declare all such bunkers as ground under repair.

 

[rulefan]

I read this differently. The Committee is not authorized to declare all such bunkers as ground under repair.

IMO the difference is specifically identifying such bunkers by saying something like
"all bunkers marked by a blue stake are ground under repair "
as opposed to a general statement
"all bunkers filled with temporary water are ground under repair"

 

[cliveb]

I read this differently. The Committee is not authorized to declare all such bunkers as ground under repair.

I can see why it's not ok to say all bunkers filled with water are GUR, since the water might drain away over the course of a comp.

But I thought it was now ok to say all bunkers are GUR as a blanket statement, ie. without saying anything about their condition.

 

[rulefan]

I can see why it's not ok to say all bunkers filled with water are GUR, since the water might drain away over the course of a comp.

But I thought it was now ok to say all bunkers are GUR as a blanket statement, ie. without saying anything about their condition.

That is my understanding. If a course decided to refurbish all bunkers with new/fresh sand at the same time they could simply declare them as GUR (and NPZ).
They can't identify them by the words 'filled with water'.