JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I might have waited until about the 16th then shocked them with the news 
A rule situation the seems that doesn't seem entirely fair.
- Thread starter Robobum
- Start date
Robobum
Money List Winner
That's kind of why I don't think the penalty is enough.I might have waited until about the 16th then shocked them with the news
Play 16 holes with every club under the sun in your bag for every shot........short sided flop - no probs, got my 64*..........low stinger in the wind - no prob, got a 1 iron too...etc, etc.
So leave the 15th dormie 3down. Notice all the extra clubs, penalty applied and still one down despite 15 holes of cheating.
Just me by the looks of it
.... Hahaduncan mackie
Money List Winner
so you are seriously suggesting that you would be happy to start matches 2 down for the ability to carry 15 clubs (which represents the lightest application of the penalty)?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Interesting discussion and I see where Robobum is coming from but the other side of the story is that you might not actually use the additional club for the entire round. You still get pinged under the rules even though you have gained no advantage.
In most cases this kind of thing is due to an error rather than an intent to cheat but I feel the Rule tries to be applicable and practicable for both situations.
I guess as an alternative what you might be looking at is something that takes into account the number of holes played in total with the additional clubs in the bag. What would that be though? Loss of each hole in match play or 2 shot pen for each hole in stoke play? I think that would be too harsh.
Think about the scenario, alluded to above, in which I notice you have 15 clubs on the 2nd hole but decide not to call you on it until the 10th at which point we shake hands and walk in, my game. Bad luck old boy. Oh I know you didn't actually use that club but rules is rules.
How about a medal. Nice score but that's an extra 36 shots when you notice, as you put your bag away, that you left that extra club in the bag that you were trying out last night. Is that a fair penalty, given that you never used it?
OK, so could you have a system based on whether the additional club was actually used? That would I think be almost impossible to establish or apply. Which was the 15th club and where was it used?
I think what the current Rule does is establish a penalty that is a deterrent and a punishment without being too complex to apply, and which doesn't have to be qualified with whether it was intentional or or not or whether there was any actual advantage.
In most cases this kind of thing is due to an error rather than an intent to cheat but I feel the Rule tries to be applicable and practicable for both situations.
I guess as an alternative what you might be looking at is something that takes into account the number of holes played in total with the additional clubs in the bag. What would that be though? Loss of each hole in match play or 2 shot pen for each hole in stoke play? I think that would be too harsh.
Think about the scenario, alluded to above, in which I notice you have 15 clubs on the 2nd hole but decide not to call you on it until the 10th at which point we shake hands and walk in, my game. Bad luck old boy. Oh I know you didn't actually use that club but rules is rules.
How about a medal. Nice score but that's an extra 36 shots when you notice, as you put your bag away, that you left that extra club in the bag that you were trying out last night. Is that a fair penalty, given that you never used it?
OK, so could you have a system based on whether the additional club was actually used? That would I think be almost impossible to establish or apply. Which was the 15th club and where was it used?
I think what the current Rule does is establish a penalty that is a deterrent and a punishment without being too complex to apply, and which doesn't have to be qualified with whether it was intentional or or not or whether there was any actual advantage.
Ethan
Money List Winner
It is a fixed penalty, just like the penalty of 2 shots applied for a range of other infractions. Would anyone say that a player who hits his ball 50 yards out of bounds should suffer a great penalty than the player who hits 6 inches out of bounds? The former is clearly a greater offence.
Robobum
Money List Winner
No, as I never suggested that, I don't think that.
But then the other part of your post is incorrect, so perhaps reading is not one of your strong points
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
No, as I never suggested that, I don't think that.
But then the other part of your post is incorrect, so perhaps reading is not one of your strong points
putting aside any reasonable inference from both your original post, and more specifically post 22, I can't see how the application of a penalty of 2 shots over 18 (or more) holes can be anything but the lightest application of the penalty; please enlighten me?
Dave B
Q-School Graduate
How many times have you gone to clean your clubs after a round and found you've used every club in the bag?
Not many at a guess so I feel the two hole penalty is just.
Not many at a guess so I feel the two hole penalty is just.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
just out of curiosity why did he count his opponents clubs or even look in his opponents bag ? have any of the rest of ye ever done this ?
robbest3offthetee
Tour Rookie
BP, My playing partners always do this ,to see what club im using !!!..
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
would they or you for that matter count or know how many clubs were in the bag tho ?
robbest3offthetee
Tour Rookie
TBH, Have never ever, counted or looked in another players bag,would expect them to abide by the rules the same as everybody else,this situation was obviously just a oversight by the said player, and the penalty in my opinion seemed fair....
RGDave
Money List Winner
Whoa....tough.
14 clubs is the rule, and it's not hard to double check.
2 hole loss seems quite a price to pay, so in a a way, I'd say it was plenty.
Then again, you could argue that any infringement of rules regarding equipment (illegal clubs, extra clubs, dodgy balls) ought just to lead to DQ...
Assuming you were playing experienced player(s), it's a bit suspicious is it not? I've gone out with all 14 compartments full (like a 3 iron and a hybrid 3) with a putter on the side for a practise on my own. If I did it in a comp, I'd probably shop myself.
14 clubs is the rule, and it's not hard to double check.
2 hole loss seems quite a price to pay, so in a a way, I'd say it was plenty.
Then again, you could argue that any infringement of rules regarding equipment (illegal clubs, extra clubs, dodgy balls) ought just to lead to DQ...
Assuming you were playing experienced player(s), it's a bit suspicious is it not? I've gone out with all 14 compartments full (like a 3 iron and a hybrid 3) with a putter on the side for a practise on my own. If I did it in a comp, I'd probably shop myself.
Robobum
Money List Winner
It was a scratch game, the guy was off 1 or 2. Got to take him on face value as it being an oversight - I hope, and don't think, it was anything underhand.
My partner was checking his bag as he had some spanking new Clevelands, which look lovely by the way, and thought that the bag looked really full. He was carrying a 2 & 3iron and there were 3 headcovers - bit unusual, so he had a quick count....in fact he counted them 3 times because it was an awkward situation that was coming.
I've never looked or thought about it previously, it may have happened previously and I would have been oblivious to it.
The rule states 2 holes MAXIMUM, so the lightest of penalties would be 1 hole if discovered in time......anything else would incurr the maximum or most severe penalty for the infringement, or is it my poor reading ability?
The 2 hole penalty saved us anyway, we would have lost 2&1 otherwise. The other opponent made birdie 3 on the par 4 15th......464yds into a stiff breeze, driver 3 wood to 2feet, best shot I've seen in a long while. Then we 3 jacked 17 for par after having 15 feet for eagle
I still think it's unfair but will stamp my feet in silence!! Haha
My partner was checking his bag as he had some spanking new Clevelands, which look lovely by the way, and thought that the bag looked really full. He was carrying a 2 & 3iron and there were 3 headcovers - bit unusual, so he had a quick count....in fact he counted them 3 times because it was an awkward situation that was coming.
I've never looked or thought about it previously, it may have happened previously and I would have been oblivious to it.
The rule states 2 holes MAXIMUM, so the lightest of penalties would be 1 hole if discovered in time......anything else would incurr the maximum or most severe penalty for the infringement, or is it my poor reading ability?
The 2 hole penalty saved us anyway, we would have lost 2&1 otherwise. The other opponent made birdie 3 on the par 4 15th......464yds into a stiff breeze, driver 3 wood to 2feet, best shot I've seen in a long while. Then we 3 jacked 17 for par after having 15 feet for eagle
I still think it's unfair but will stamp my feet in silence!!
Haha
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
robo we never agree but on this situ im with you 100%
every hole played with the limit exceeded should instantly be a loss, in theory a match could be lost 10 & 8.
how someone can cheat on every hole yet only be deducted 2 holes is bonkers.
Robobum
Money List Winner
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
I disagree
really, thats unexpected.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I think you have missed the point made earlier that by and large we could expect the 15 club situation to be accidental and not an attempt to cheat and I suspect the penalty is set at a maximum of of 2 holes or 4 strokes for that reason. If there were evidence that someone was deliberately carrying more than 14 clubs for the purpose of getting an unfair advantage, he could I expect be dealt with by disqualification. I've no idea how you could establish that it was deliberate though.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
The rule states 2 holes MAXIMUM, so the lightest of penalties would be 1 hole if discovered in time......anything else would incurr the maximum or most severe penalty for the infringement, or is it my poor reading ability?
don't think it's a reading issue; just on different wavelenghts - neither right nor wrong.
I see a 1 hole penalty applied for playing 1 hole with 15 clubs in the bag as inherently heavier than 2 shots for playing 18 (at 1/9th of a hole per hole).
Similar threads
