9 hole general play handicap

[Voyager EMH]

Whether it was "an interpretation error" is debatable.
I say they made "a comprehension error".

I got it right all on my own by reading what was there and nothing else. I have no special powers in this respect.

I did not read something into the rules that was not there. Anyone who got it wrong may have been doing this.

A really good thread, good exchange of views and a very clear factual conclusion.

 

[rulefan]

It would seem that EG were not aware of the error made by dotgolf until after the correction was made. It is not clear if they were advised by dotgolf or alerted by affected players/clubs.
Or perhaps Voyager had written to dotgolf

 

[Voyager EMH]

I did not contact anyone beyond the thread of this forum.
An opposing view to mine was expressed and I was willing to be proved wrong.
That has not happened.
I feel no need to gloat or express triumphalism.
It was a good discussion and should not be sullied with pettiness.

 

[rulefan]

should not be sullied with pettiness.

I hope you didn't read that into my comment. I only jokingly suggested you might have given dotgolf a nudge. I was really admiring your perseverance and the fact you were correct all along.

 

[AmandaJR]

I only noticed today my index came down 0.2 which brings my course handicap down a shot. No notification of the change which seems pretty poor. I only looked at my England Golf record to explain how it works to someone else...I guess I don't really know!

 

[rosecott]

I only noticed today my index came down 0.2 which brings my course handicap down a shot. No notification of the change which seems pretty poor. I only looked at my England Golf record to explain how it works to someone else...I guess I don't really know!

We were notified by our England Golf Regional Adviser.

 

[AmandaJR]

We were notified by our England Golf Regional Adviser.

They may have contacted the club then who have done nothing! It was just by chance I looked at my record and would have played a competition with the wrong stated handicap (DQ) - potentially.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I could never understand the manual as it is so vague. According to my spreadsheet of scores, England Golf were scaling up using net par + 1. On 22nd July, 2022, I plugged the CONGU algorithm into my spreadsheet, back to the beginning of the WHS epoch, and arrived at the same, new handicap index as did England Golf after thei rrecalculation of historic score differentials.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Raising this one again....anyone know the 'new' formula for 9 hole differentials.

I only ask, as I have been trying to use the formula in the WHS Rules of Handicapping Guide, but no calculation is getting near the differential I was given for a 9 hole score I put in. I'm a saddo, so have my own little sheet so I can work out the differentials based on scores, but can't rely on the 9 hole calculation at the minute!

 

[Voyager EMH]

There is no 'new' formula.
England golf and others did not read well enough and comprehend.
I copied and pasted the formula in post #2.

It is the handicap for the "scaling-up" nine holes where the mistakes have been made.
Sometimes the handicap for the scaling-up nine will be the same as the handicap for the nine holes played, sometimes it will be one shot more and sometimes it will be one shot less.
I was able to read the rule and get it correct straight away nearly two years ago. I incorporated it into my personal handicap tracking spreadsheet.
I do not have special powers - I merely read it carefully.
England Golf were incorrect and used an exact match of nine-holes-played handicap and scaling-up handicap on every occasion. Bad mistake in comprehension on their part.

 

[stocks4]

Hi Wabinez, is your 'little sheet' also in Microsoft Excel? If so, I had the same problem and came up with the following:
=SUM(ROUND(ROUND((HandicapIndex*(SlopeRating/113))+(CourseRating*2)-(9HolePar*2),0)/2,0)+1,9HolePar)

The calculated number should then be added to your (adjusted) gross score for the nine holes played, giving you a scaled up 18-hole score that is used for score differential purposes.

Hope this helps!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

There is no 'new' formula.
England golf and others did not read well enough and comprehend.
I copied and pasted the formula in post #2.

It is the handicap for the "scaling-up" nine holes where the mistakes have been made.
Sometimes the handicap for the scaling-up nine will be the same as the handicap for the nine holes played, sometimes it will be one shot more and sometimes it will be one shot less.
I was able to read the rule and get it correct straight away nearly two years ago. I incorporated it into my personal handicap tracking spreadsheet.
I do not have special powers - I merely read it carefully.
England Golf were incorrect and used an exact match of nine-holes-played handicap and scaling-up handicap on every occasion. Bad mistake in comprehension on their part.

Cool, well thanks for that....I have tried multiple versions of the formula, and still getting wrong results, so if you wanted to help out and post the base formula to assist, that'd be grand!

Hi Wabinez, is your 'little sheet' also in Microsoft Excel? If so, I had the same problem and came up with the following:
=SUM(ROUND(ROUND((HandicapIndex*(SlopeRating/113))+(CourseRating*2)-(9HolePar*2),0)/2,0)+1,9HolePar)

The calculated number should then be added to your (adjusted) gross score for the nine holes played, giving you a scaled up 18-hole score that is used for score differential purposes.

Hope this helps!

Sadly this didn't give me a figure that means anything. Especially when you say it would need to be added to the adjusted gross score for the 9 holes played! The end result of the above gave me '75' which when added to my adjusted gross would be 114, which doesn't give me the differential I got

 

[Voyager EMH]

Perhaps a step-by-step worked example might help you and any others who are reading.

Par 35
Course Rating 35.6
Slope Rating 126
Handicap Index 4.9

Here we go

9-hole Course Handicap = (4.9/2) x (126/113) + (35.6 -35) = 3.3 (this will be rounded to 3 for the nine holes played)

18-hole handicap, based on twice round the same 9 is 2 x 3.3 = 6.6 (this is rounded to 7)

This is a scenario where the "scaling-up" nine hole handicap of 4 is one shot more than the nine-holes-played handicap to give a total of 7.
The calculation will give either the same, one shot more or one shot less. Just depends how the figures work out.

In this example the scaling up nine holes (nine net pars plus one shot) is 35 + 4 + 1 = 40.

Lets say our player does his nine holes in two over par 37.

His differential = (37 + 40 -(2 x 35.6)) x ( 113/126) = (77-71.2) x (113/126) = 5.8 x (113/126) = 5.2

I believe this to be correct and accurate.
I don't like it, however.
The player has done nine holes in merely 1.4 shots over the course rating yet is given a differential of 5.2 for doing so.
When your scaling-up nine holes handicap is one more than your nine-holes-played handicap the formula works against you.
Works for you the other way around.
I'm not returning 9-hole scores, because I don't like the formula.

If you are incorporating a formula into a spreadsheet, remember to add scope for PCC.
(Hope I've not done a typo somewhere in the above figures)

 

[stocks4]

Cool, well thanks for that....I have tried multiple versions of the formula, and still getting wrong results, so if you wanted to help out and post the base formula to assist, that'd be grand!




Sadly this didn't give me a figure that means anything. Especially when you say it would need to be added to the adjusted gross score for the 9 holes played! The end result of the above gave me '75' which when added to my adjusted gross would be 114, which doesn't give me the differential I got

Hi again - what were the four variables (course rating, slope rating, 9H par & your index) and your 9-hole gross score?

 

[stocks4]

Cool, well thanks for that....I have tried multiple versions of the formula, and still getting wrong results, so if you wanted to help out and post the base formula to assist, that'd be grand!




Sadly this didn't give me a figure that means anything. Especially when you say it would need to be added to the adjusted gross score for the 9 holes played! The end result of the above gave me '75' which when added to my adjusted gross would be 114, which doesn't give me the differential I got

Quick Q: did you use the Course Rating for 9 holes or 18 ? (should be for 9H)

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Quick Q: did you use the Course Rating for 9 holes or 18 ? (should be for 9H)

I used the 9 hole CR

The info:

CR:35.9
HI:3.3
Slope:128
9H Par: 35

Gross score: 39

 

[stocks4]

I used the 9 hole CR

The info:

CR:35.9
HI:3.3
Slope:128
9H Par: 35

Gross score: 39

Using my Excel formula above, I make that a score differential of 5.5

 

[stocks4]

I used the 9 hole CR

The info:

CR:35.9
HI:3.3
Slope:128
9H Par: 35

Gross score: 39

Excel formula becomes:
=SUM(ROUND(ROUND((3.3*(128/113))+(35.9*2)-(35*2),0)/2,0)+1,35)

This results in a figure of 39, which is added to your gross (+39), giving a scaled up 18-hole total of 78

78 gives a score differential of 5.5

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Excel formula becomes:
=SUM(ROUND(ROUND((3.3*(128/113))+(35.9*2)-(35*2),0)/2,0)+1,35)

This results in a figure of 39, which is added to your gross (+39), giving a scaled up 18-hole total of 78

78 gives a score differential of 5.5

see, that is correct….but when I type the formula…it was giving me something completely different.

voyagers workout above gave me the right details too, but when I adjusted one element for a change of player, the differential was then wrong.

let me get on a big screen rather than an iPad too!

 

[stocks4]

see, that is correct….but when I type the formula…it was giving me something completely different.

voyagers workout above gave me the right details too, but when I adjusted one element for a change of player, the differential was then wrong.

let me get on a big screen rather than an iPad too!

Glad it worked for you, it should work for all.

Good call out earlier regarding PCC. I just have an extra column for this adjustment in my spreadsheet, and update this if a PCC appears on the app.

I've also worked out how an ESR is handled, but perhaps save that for another day!