4BBB matchplay handicaps?

[Beezerk]

Sure it’s been asked before but I’ll ask again 😉
How are handicaps worked out for 4BBB matchplay?
Is it 90% difference from lowest handicapper (he’s off 6, I’m 12 so I’d get 5) or is it 90% of all handicaps then the difference (6=5, 12=11) so difference is 6.
From what I’ve read it’s the first one but it doesn’t seem clear and it also means the better player doesn’t get any sort of handicap penalty.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’s the first one, the better player is in theory got to play to scratch, so I’d say they could be taking the bigger hit.

 

[duncan mackie]

It's the first option, and I fully expect it to be 100% allowance when the new system is implemented (because I believe that's how everyone else does it now...) at which point you will get the same result either way!

 

[Beezerk]

Thanks chaps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I feel that in 4BBB a % of difference is actually fairer, since in my experience we can individually play better when in a 4 ball pairing than when we are playing on our own.

Quite simply there is less pressure on each individual in the pairing than when we are playing individually. And as we all know it is pressure, and how we cope with it, that is key to the qualifying scores we put in and that drive our handicap. I suggest that most players would have lower handicaps if individual scores in 4 ball contexts were taken into account. Though I have no evidence for saying that other than observation on what causes us each to make mistakes and compound them - the mistakes that drive our scores up - and that is simply pressure.

And so we have the higher handicapper who can play and score well and significantly under his handicap in a friendly knock or in a 4BBB context, but struggles playing an individual qualifying round - and it is that struggle that results in him having the handicap he does.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I feel that in 4BBB a % of difference is actually fairer, since in my experience we can individually play better when in a 4 ball pairing than when we are playing on our own.

Quite simply there is less pressure on each individual in the pairing than when we are playing individually. And as we all know it is pressure, and how we cope with it, that is key to the qualifying scores we put in and that drive our handicap. I suggest that most players would have lower handicaps if individual scores in 4 ball contexts were taken into account. Though I have no evidence for saying that other than observation on what causes us each to make mistakes and compound them - the mistakes that drive our scores up - and that is simply pressure.

And so we have the higher handicapper who can play and score well and significantly under his handicap in a friendly knock or in a 4BBB context, but struggles playing an individual qualifying round - and it is that struggle that results in him having the handicap he does.

It’s not a struggle in an individual qualifying round, it’s reality and that’s why it works.
We should be judged over 18 holes not 10-17.

 

[patricks148]

Sure it’s been asked before but I’ll ask again 😉
How are handicaps worked out for 4BBB matchplay?
Is it 90% difference from lowest handicapper (he’s off 6, I’m 12 so I’d get 5) or is it 90% of all handicaps then the difference (6=5, 12=11) so difference is 6.
From what I’ve read it’s the first one but it doesn’t seem clear and it also means the better player doesn’t get any sort of handicap penalty.

how are they not getting any penalty, they get none and you still get 6?

 

[duncan mackie]

how are they not getting any penalty, they get none and you still get 6?

?

If the 90% is applied to each player in this example the 12 handicapper would still get the full difference (6) but done correctly he gets 90% of the difference which is 5 (not 6).
This leads to perceived penalty associated with the first approach (over the second) - but in reality it's just a function of the numbers selected for consideration - make him 5 and its the same either way (as an example).

 

[patricks148]

?

If the 90% is applied to each player in this example the 12 handicapper would still get the full difference (6) but done correctly he gets 90% of the difference which is 5 (not 6).
This leads to perceived penalty associated with the first approach (over the second) - but in reality it's just a function of the numbers selected for consideration - make him 5 and its the same either way (as an example).

sure, its just the old "i loose half my shots" malarkey, when the low man loses the lot, they don't think of that ... do the Malcolm:rofl:

 

[jim8flog]

I all but two of the matches I played in the last 10 years I have been the low handicapper. I feel I take a very big hit because of the way strokes are given particularly against low teens handicappers.

In match play I lose my strokes particularly on low stroke index long holes where I cannot reach the green in two so effectively I am in exactly the same situation as the player I am giving shots to but he is allowed an extra shot to get to the green.


Stands back and waits for the traditionalists view.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I all but two of the matches I played in the last 10 years I have been the low handicapper. I feel I take a very big hit because of the way strokes are given particularly against low teens handicappers.

In match play I lose my strokes particularly on low stroke index long holes where I cannot reach the green in two so effectively I am in exactly the same situation as the player I am giving shots to but he is allowed an extra shot to get to the green.


Stands back and waits for the traditionalists view.

That’s because your handicap suggests that you are a better player than him - it will even itself out because at the “easier” holes he won’t get a shot but has to play against a better player on that hole

There will always be the same whinges when it comes to matchplay Handicap allowances - when it changes to 90% we had a group whinge like mad that it was biased and unfair to mid and low HC so they didn’t enter the winter league and created their own - those guys are still losing ( it’s not the HC allowance it’s the players ability ) and in the winter league it’s at the semi final stage - one group has a 5 and a 4 HC the other two 5 HC’s , pretty much disproved their theory

In most cases the player playing the best golf relative to their HC will win - if people don’t like it then just play scratch KO

 

[doublebogey7]

I all but two of the matches I played in the last 10 years I have been the low handicapper. I feel I take a very big hit because of the way strokes are given particularly against low teens handicappers.

In match play I lose my strokes particularly on low stroke index long holes where I cannot reach the green in two so effectively I am in exactly the same situation as the player I am giving shots to but he is allowed an extra shot to get to the green.


Stands back and waits for the traditionalists view.

I'll wager that you won over half of those matches?

 

[duncan mackie]

I all but two of the matches I played in the last 10 years I have been the low handicapper. I feel I take a very big hit because of the way strokes are given particularly against low teens handicappers.

In match play I lose my strokes particularly on low stroke index long holes where I cannot reach the green in two so effectively I am in exactly the same situation as the player I am giving shots to but he is allowed an extra shot to get to the green.


Stands back and waits for the traditionalists view.

I hate traditional views too - much better to look at the facts....

Quickest simplist way in this case was to review the BB match play results from the clubs match records (IG is wonderful for this sort of thing) and whilst statistically it's not an exact science (who played agaist who, with who) the dominant trend is that the lower the handicap, the higher the win percentage (there are noticeable anomalies but digging deeper there you often find reasons)

Now this shouldnt be a big surprise given that any handicap difference represents a 13% advantage to the lower handicap player due to the handicap calculation process (explicit in the USGA system, implicit in CONGU).

Sure, from time to time you will come up against an unbeatable pair of high handicappers, but over the long run the low guy will have the better statistics (unless of course they have a vanity handicap &#129300

 

[Beezerk]

sure, its just the old "i loose half my shots" malarkey, when the low man loses the lot, they don't think of that ... do the Malcolm:rofl:

He doesn't lose anything, there's a smaller difference in our handicaps as his doesn't get changed in reality, it's just the starting point is different. In match play it's all about "does he get a shot on this hole" the less this happens the better chance he has of winning.
It's an odd one as the preliminary round was straight forward 4BBB. Anyway, we'll probably get stuffed as he plays on the team so I need some form of plan to get him off his game