400 yards

[Golfnut1957]

No you need to us it context, imagine the distances amateurs would be hitting it without the tech, even less that the pro's as we aren't super fit, the forgiveness aspect and ball allows us to hit it further than our skill says we should.

You've lost me. The two links that I posted demonstrated that on "average" amateurs don't hit the ball anywhere near as far as people tend to think. There's a perception that all amateurs drive it 250+ which obviously is not the case.

These figures would support the idea of maintaining the current standards for amateurs. As for the Pro's if they all start hitting driver wedge at every event it will become even more of a snooze fest than it is now and die a slow death. The good news is that there will not be 172 Dechambeau's on tour, ever.

 

[Crow]

Well , no one's a fact.
Modern tech like arcos and game golf are giving us stats from millions of shots by your average golfer and your view just doesn't stand up.

I'd venture the bigger gain is that the bad shots go further than they used to. I can hit my m2 off the tee and it still goes pretty good.

Or you could try this one

https://www.golfwrx.com/638134/the-...tm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=unused

Okay, I'm wrong by by saying the "average golfer" as that includes older golfers who as we all know make up the greatest proportion of golfers. But you've focused on my statement about reaching par 5s in two, the fact remains that even below average golfers are hitting the ball further than they were.

Coming back to the stats posted, those quoted for age group 40-49, the average is 225.9, that means they'll hit a good number further than that and on that basis will expect to be able to reach some par 5s in two.
50-59 age group aren't much further behind at 215.4 so reasonable players will sometimes be able to reach in two, when I was mid to late 50s even I could occasionally get on par 5s in two, and I'm not a good golfer.
Guys below 40 with a half decent game will definitely be able to reach in two quite frequently.

Any reasonable ball striking single figure golfer will certainly be looking to reach par 5s in two.

I don't know how old you both are but answer me this, on your home course how many holes do you regularly hit a wedge into a par 4 and have you reached any par 5s in 2 this year?

I'm playing only vintage clubs (mostly with a modern ball) and I've reached a par 5 in 2 once this year.

All golfers have benefitted from modern technology.

• High MOI drivers with huge forgiving heads.
• Similar high MOI for fairway woods and hybrids with hot faces.
• Irons featuring hot faces and perimeter weighting.
• And then the ball.

(Putters today are much more forgiving too, people call an Anser style a blade but it's really the equivalent of a cavity back iron, the Spider style and equivalents are even more stable)

 

[Golfnut1957]

Okay, I'm wrong by by saying the "average golfer" as that includes older golfers who as we all know make up the greatest proportion of golfers. But you've focused on my statement about reaching par 5s in two, the fact remains that even below average golfers are hitting the ball further than they were.

Coming back to the stats posted, those quoted for age group 40-49, the average is 225.9, that means they'll hit a good number further than that and on that basis will expect to be able to reach some par 5s in two.
50-59 age group aren't much further behind at 215.4 so reasonable players will sometimes be able to reach in two, when I was mid to late 50s even I could occasionally get on par 5s in two, and I'm not a good golfer.
Guys below 40 with a half decent game will definitely be able to reach in two quite frequently.

Any reasonable ball striking single figure golfer will certainly be looking to reach par 5s in two.

I don't know how old you both are but answer me this, on your home course how many holes do you regularly hit a wedge into a par 4 and have you reached any par 5s in 2 this year?

I'm playing only vintage clubs (mostly with a modern ball) and I've reached a par 5 in 2 once this year.

All golfers have benefitted from modern technology.

• High MOI drivers with huge forgiving heads.
• Similar high MOI for fairway woods and hybrids with hot faces.
• Irons featuring hot faces and perimeter weighting.
• And then the ball.

(Putters today are much more forgiving too, people call an Anser style a blade but it's really the equivalent of a cavity back iron, the Spider style and equivalents are even more stable)

I can't work out if we are actually mostly agreeing or not. Are you suggesting that equipment should be rolled back for the average golfer?

I'm 62 6.6i and I would say that in summer my average driver distance is around 250/260, but I wouldn't class myself as average.

At my home course I will hit wedge into about 5 holes but some of that will be dependant on strategy. The par 4 17 is 320yds and should be drive wedge but the tee shot is blind, downhill, doglegged and tree lined. Feel free to hit diver but it better be accurate. The point is there is still more to golf than distance for the amateur and that when it comes to golf then generalising gets you no where.

As for the Par 5's again it doesn't do to generalise. We have 3 Par 5's, the second with the right conditions is reachable in two, but with OB close to the left edge and behind, a ditch in front and a deep hairy swale right the reward is not worth the risk and so none but the very longest go for it.
I have reach the 10th in two on numerous occasions. It's only 480 or so and if you get your drive over the hill it will run for miles leaving around 200 to 230 to the middle. But if you can't drive it the 212 yds to the top of the hill then it becomes a long difficult hole.
The 9th is 540 and I have never come close to getting on in two. I haven't seen anyone get on in two this year (doesn't mean people haven't). My 4i mate hits the ball way further than me and while he's had a few attempts he hasn't managed it.

It's not all about length, unless you're B Dechambeau.

 

[Crow]

I can't work out if we are actually mostly agreeing or not. Are you suggesting that equipment should be rolled back for the average golfer?

I'm 62 6.6i and I would say that in summer my average driver distance is around 250/260, but I wouldn't class myself as average.

At my home course I will hit wedge into about 5 holes but some of that will be dependant on strategy. The par 4 17 is 320yds and should be drive wedge but the tee shot is blind, downhill, doglegged and tree lined. Feel free to hit diver but it better be accurate. The point is there is still more to golf than distance for the amateur and that when it comes to golf then generalising gets you no where.

As for the Par 5's again it doesn't do to generalise. We have 3 Par 5's, the second with the right conditions is reachable in two, but with OB close to the left edge and behind, a ditch in front and a deep hairy swale right the reward is not worth the risk and so none but the very longest go for it.
I have reach the 10th in two on numerous occasions. It's only 480 or so and if you get your drive over the hill it will run for miles leaving around 200 to 230 to the middle. But if you can't drive it the 212 yds to the top of the hill then it becomes a long difficult hole.
The 9th is 540 and I have never come close to getting on in two. I haven't seen anyone get on in two this year (doesn't mean people haven't). My 4i mate hits the ball way further than me and while he's had a few attempts he hasn't managed it.

It's not all about length, unless you're B Dechambeau.

I'm not suggesting equipment should be rolled back for the average golfer but it does benefit them, as proven by the fact that at the age of 62 your average distance is 250 to 260, that suggests that on a good day you can get one out close to or beyond 300 yards, that didn't happen for 62 year old golfers pre 1990, or even pre 2000.

I think the modern game has lost a lot of it's art and skill, but that's the way most golfers seem to like it so I'm not going to spoil their fun by suggesting that everybody goes back to persimmon and blades.

My initial comment was that we shouldn't be hitting the ball the distances we are now, Pros and amateurs. That's obviously my own opinion and most don't seem to agree, that's fine but I prefer the challenge of persimmon and blades, I just wish that there was a modern ball that spun like the old balatas so that the woods would perform how they were supposed to.

 

[MendieGK]

40 yards left will be playing from some interesting places at August.

The other fairway. No issues

 

[Blue in Munich]

35 years ago I used to play the course at which I'm now a member. In my 20's using wooden headed woods, steel shafts in all clubs, blades and wound balls I rarely got near any of the par 5's in 2. Wind forward to today, pushing 60, metal headed woods with graphite shafts, modern blades, modern ball, 3 of the 4 par 5's are regularly in reach. My handicap has been in the same region throughout that period.

So if the average golfer hasn't got any longer, my course has obviously shrunk.

 

[Hendy]

 

[robinthehood]

35 years ago I used to play the course at which I'm now a member. In my 20's using wooden headed woods, steel shafts in all clubs, blades and wound balls I rarely got near any of the par 5's in 2. Wind forward to today, pushing 60, metal headed woods with graphite shafts, modern blades, modern ball, 3 of the 4 par 5's are regularly in reach. My handicap has been in the same region throughout that period.

So if the average golfer hasn't got any longer, my course has obviously shrunk.

Amatures have gained some distance. about 20 yds since 2000, but when youre starting point is already low the gains are not as prounounced, average drive for ams is 220ish... no ones tearing up any courses with that, that's for sure. There are a tons of stats to back it up, as opposed to anecdotal stuff from a golf forum.
If you're prepared to put the time and effort in then there is more distance there, simply maximising launch conditions will yied results. Spin, launch ange etc.

 

[Foxholer]

Apparently everyone's favourite bomber Mr BDC has been getting over 400 yds of carry in practice and not even using the 48 incher yet .
Those old geezers in their green blazers will be worried ???

Won't bother those wealthy Southern gentlemen! They'll simply buy more of the adjacent land and extend the course! Or, indeed, simply use the land they've already purchased in anticipation of such an occurrence! Just as they did when Tiger destroyed the rest of the field!
But it's certainly something that should concern the likes of USGA Tournament Committee - as many other top courses can't extend any further than they already have.

It's tough to decide whether action is required or not - as it's a fantastic achievement by BdC and not simply via a 'single dominant' trait. He was World Number 1 Amateur before he turned Pro, so always a top quality player!

 

[Orikoru]

Okay, I'm wrong by by saying the "average golfer" as that includes older golfers who as we all know make up the greatest proportion of golfers. But you've focused on my statement about reaching par 5s in two, the fact remains that even below average golfers are hitting the ball further than they were.

Coming back to the stats posted, those quoted for age group 40-49, the average is 225.9, that means they'll hit a good number further than that and on that basis will expect to be able to reach some par 5s in two.
50-59 age group aren't much further behind at 215.4 so reasonable players will sometimes be able to reach in two, when I was mid to late 50s even I could occasionally get on par 5s in two, and I'm not a good golfer.
Guys below 40 with a half decent game will definitely be able to reach in two quite frequently.

Any reasonable ball striking single figure golfer will certainly be looking to reach par 5s in two.

I don't know how old you both are but answer me this, on your home course how many holes do you regularly hit a wedge into a par 4 and have you reached any par 5s in 2 this year?

I'm playing only vintage clubs (mostly with a modern ball) and I've reached a par 5 in 2 once this year.

All golfers have benefitted from modern technology.

• High MOI drivers with huge forgiving heads.
• Similar high MOI for fairway woods and hybrids with hot faces.
• Irons featuring hot faces and perimeter weighting.
• And then the ball.

(Putters today are much more forgiving too, people call an Anser style a blade but it's really the equivalent of a cavity back iron, the Spider style and equivalents are even more stable)

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I'm 34 years old, play off 16, I think I've only reached a par 5 in two once in my life. There's a par 4 on my home course that I cannot reach in two. There are two par 4s that I'd be playing a wedge 2nd shot, but they're only 290 and 280 yards.

 

[howbow88]

I know all websites like this are littered with people who steadfastly refuse to ever admit that they were wrong, but this forum in particular seems to take that to another level.

 

[Crow]

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I'm 34 years old, play off 16, I think I've only reached a par 5 in two once in my life. There's a par 4 on my home course that I cannot reach in two. There are two par 4s that I'd be playing a wedge 2nd shot, but they're only 290 and 280 yards.

You must be CRAP!

 

[Orikoru]

You must be CRAP!

Well obviously. Who isn't?

 

[jmf1488]

He has won like twice with all his long driving carry on. What's the big deal? Its not like he is going out there and making a mockery of the sport, the course and the rest of the field. He has literally won twice.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Found this chart online, didn't read from where the data came. Anyway, whats interesting is it shows the highest handicappers benefiting most from the new drivers/balls, in terms of distance gains, so the person who I assume hits it all over the face rather than the faster low handicapper swinger

I know I posted on another thread, when I play with old woods, I have never got close to 450 yard plus holes, I do mean never ever and never will even if I eat my spinach ....However when I play with the M2 driver/m1 woods I can(anywhere from 450-510ish is reachable), needs two great hits/firmish fairways etc tho.

 

[Crow]

View attachment 33119

Found this chart online, didn't read from where the data came. Anyway, whats interesting is it shows the highest handicappers benefiting most from the new drivers/balls, in terms of distance gains, so the person who I assume hits it all over the face rather than the faster low handicapper swinger

I know I posted on another thread, when I play with old woods, I have never got close to 450 yard plus holes, I do mean never ever and never will even if I eat my spinach ....However when I play with the M2 driver/m1 woods I can(anywhere from 450-510ish is reachable), needs two great hits/firmish fairways etc tho.

The puzzling thing about this table is the way that peaks and troughs are mirrored across handicap categories. It would suggest that every golfer got the same new equipment each year and their individual gains/losses using that equipment show up in the results. Particularly spooky are the years 2011 to 20014!
Surely golfers wouldn't all change equipment at the same time and peaks and troughs wouldn't align so closely?

 

[Deleted member 25172]

He has won like twice with all his long driving carry on. What's the big deal? Its not like he is going out there and making a mockery of the sport, the course and the rest of the field. He has literally won twice.

I’ve already said that what BDC is doing is impressive and somewhat fascinating. My worry (well, it’s not really a worry as such) is that I believe in 10 years time, there’ll be 50 of him on the tour, and come that point, we won’t see anyone not driving the ball around 350-400 win. The game will be even more of a long drive competition, and today’s courses will be somewhat obsolete.

Some people like the prospect of that. Personally I think it would be rather dull.

But again, it’s not something that keeps me up at night really.

 

[patricks148]

make the pro's play with Hickory clubs job done

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The puzzling thing about this table is the way that peaks and troughs are mirrored across handicap categories. It would suggest that every golfer got the same new equipment each year and their individual gains/losses using that equipment show up in the results. Particularly spooky are the years 2011 to 20014!
Surely golfers wouldn't all change equipment at the same time and peaks and troughs wouldn't align so closely?

Depending on who the data relates to could it be weather related? A wet summer means little ball roll, the numbers are depressed. A summer like 2018 and even us short hitters, I'm not inferring you in this, can get an extra 20-30yds of roll. That could distort the figures. If the figures are taken worldwide then ignore this theory.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

The puzzling thing about this table is the way that peaks and troughs are mirrored across handicap categories. It would suggest that every golfer got the same new equipment each year and their individual gains/losses using that equipment show up in the results. Particularly spooky are the years 2011 to 20014!
Surely golfers wouldn't all change equipment at the same time and peaks and troughs wouldn't align so closely?

Maybe due to the weather and playing conditions(fastest/dry fairways ?), just I'm just making it up here haven't got the foggiest ?

I thought it was strange that high handicappers, seemed to be the only ones climbing thoughout the period as a trend. The other handicappers didn't much after 2000, especially given the growth in custom fitting in that period which would be relevant to the low handicappers. Maybe spin, shaft weight, flex, strike, launch or the new mega epic smasher club, isn't that important after all