2023 Professional Golf thread

[Slime]

We just need more mixed comps with tees further forwards for the women, just replicate how most of us are playing comps on a regular basis (handicaps apart) into some pro events.

In that case they'd, effectively, be playing different courses.

 

[BubbaP]

I can't find the round 2 leaderboard anymore, but from some comments on X, it looks like Lexi missed by either 1, 2 or 3 shots? Balionis commented she had a 6ft putt on the last to make the cut; other outlets said by 2 and the BBC boldly states she 'narrowly' missed the cut but the article states by 3 (which wouldn't be narrowly). It's not meant to be disparaging, I think she did great and was the only interesting thing about the tournament, she beat an awful lot of male players and it would be interesting to see if she competed at that level over a number of months what would happen to her overall game.

Did seem a lot of chat in various places, here included, was about her. Do we know if she received anything for the publicity generated for the tournament/tour?
Or was the publicity for herself, and her usual tour sufficient enough?

 

[Mel Smooth]

In that case they'd, effectively, be playing different courses.

Does it matter? As long as the course set up is reflective of the physical advantage a man has over a woman?

I’m sure there are more than enough stats to determine a fair course set up.

 

[Swango1980]

Does it matter? As long as the course set up is reflective of the physical advantage a man has over a woman?

I’m sure there are more than enough stats to determine a fair course set up.

There should be a mixed 100m race, but there should be stats to indicate women get a head start of about 10m.

I guess there are many sports that you could do something to handicap men over women. But I'm not sure it works well at elite sport, when fans want to generally see the top athletes competing on a like by like basis?

Golf isn't just about distance either, because it'll be dependent on where hazards are placed from the tee. And even after that, where they are in relation to the green, such as a penalty area that needs to be carried to get on green. For example, on a par 5 McIlroy may hit his drive close to water, then from there be able to carry another penalty area just short of green to get on in 2. At best, a lady tee could be moved so she too can drive just short of 1st penalty area. But she isn't going to get to green in 2, if McIlroy is only getting there with a strong wood.

 

[Slime]

Does it matter? As long as the course set up is reflective of the physical advantage a man has over a woman?

I’m sure there are more than enough stats to determine a fair course set up.

Yes.
If they're in the same tournament they, surely, have to play the same course.

 

[Backsticks]

Womens tournaments are effectively handicapped competitions, as they are restricted entry to exclude those with the advantage of a Y chromosome.

 

[Imurg]

Yes.
If they're in the same tournament they, surely, have to play the same course.

When Lin Grant blew everyone away in last year's mixed event in the DP there was a raft of moans that she was playing a different course..even though the course was set up to even things out.

 

[SteveJay]

Perhaps if she did this a few more times she might have made the cut

 

[Deleted member 1147]

When Lin Grant blew everyone away in last year's mixed event in the DP there was a raft of moans that she was playing a different course..even though the course was set up to even things out.

…and, other than her, it was the men who dominated the leaderboard. The 2nd best woman was way down the field.

 

[SteveW86]

So on the flip side of Lexi playing in the men’s comp, would it be fair for men to play in women’s comps? Part of me says no chance but for balance surely some should be allowed in

Somewhere for the relegates LIV golfers maybe?

 

[Backache]

Does it matter? As long as the course set up is reflective of the physical advantage a man has over a woman?

I’m sure there are more than enough stats to determine a fair course set up.

I think you'd have to define fair first of all which is not a very easy thing to do.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Yes.
If they're in the same tournament they, surely, have to play the same course.

Why do they? Apart from 'because traditionally' I can't really see an issue - at club level mixed events should be commonplace nowadays

Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting by any means that we should be having mixed professional competitions week in, week out, but I'd love to see more mixed events on the calendar - it would help highlight the women who play the game at elite level, and that would filter down all the way to grass roots level.


There are many, many events on the tours that are simply filling up the calendar - let's do something to shake that up and make the game more appealing.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I think you'd have to define fair first of all which is not a very easy thing to do.

I don't think golf has ever been a sport where people demand 'fairness' - infact unfairness is an inherent aspect of the game.

 

[Slime]

Why do they? Apart from 'because traditionally' I can't really see an issue - at club level mixed events should be commonplace nowadays

Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting by any means that we should be having mixed professional competitions week in, week out, but I'd love to see more mixed events on the calendar - it would help highlight the women who play the game at elite level, and that would filter down all the way to grass roots level.


There are many, many events on the tours that are simply filling up the calendar - let's do something to shake that up and make the game more appealing.

Nobody would, hopefully, have a problem with that as handicaps level out the playing field .................. it's what they're for.
In the professional world there are no 'caps.
Putting men and women off different tees is, in my opinion, just guessing that 'it'll work out okay'.

 

[sweaty sock]

Nobody would, hopefully, have a problem with that as handicaps level out the playing field .................. it's what they're for.
In the professional world there are no 'caps.
Putting men and women off different tees is, in my opinion, just guessing that 'it'll work out okay'.

Even in the best most mathematically perfect case, youre still only proving how a lpga player on a 6500 course compares to a pga tour player on a 7000 course...

For me it should be like tennis, same venue, different comps, best would be like pebble pro am where the first days are on 'other' courses, then after the cut move onto the same course.

You could even have mixed groups after the cut to force the women into prominence...

Clearly, people who get paid millions can figure this out, so i assume theres a reason it doesnt happen. Hopefully that reason isnt, lazyness, fear, or self interest....

 

[Swango1980]

Are female golfers crying out to be included in men's tournaments, thus effectively making them mixed tournaments?

If not, hopefully us male golfers aren't asking for something on behalf of women, that the women are not even asking for. Or, we like the idea just because of the novelty of it?

In the isolated cases like last weekend, what was Alexi's motivation? Did she get a big appearance or sponsorship fee? Or was it just "why the heck not" if she was invited?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Are female golfers crying out to be included in men's tournaments, thus effectively making them mixed tournaments?

If not, hopefully us male golfers aren't asking for something on behalf of women, that the women are not even asking for. Or, we like the idea just because of the novelty of it?

In the isolated cases like last weekend, what was Alexi's motivation? Did she get a big appearance or sponsorship fee? Or was it just "why the heck not" if she was invited?

I think judging by the views of the very few females that are active on the forum, they’d welcome women in the game getting a higher profile, and having those players appearing in high profile events would definitely drive that.

Last weekend is proof.

 

[Swango1980]

I think judging by the views of the very few females that are active on the forum, they’d welcome women in the game getting a higher profile, and having those players appearing in high profile events would definitely drive that.

Last weekend is proof.

Did it elevate the profile of an event that is effectively off season? Yes, I'm sure it did. Would it elevate the profile of bigger events mid season, I'm not so sure. However, if Alexi Thompson did play in popular mid season event (or even in an event like last week), does it truly raise the profile of the woman's game if she is struggling to make the cut? Does it elevate the women's game when she is getting praised for her performance, and yet still missing the cut? I don't think it necessarily does.

If it was done more often, I think the novelty would quickly wear off. I think some would then criticise women playing in an event that they struggle to ever compete in, and taking the spot of some male golfers who may well have a better chance. And if they went off forward tees, then even if they get a score up there with the leaders, it will mean little to the fans given that the female is playing a different course. If a female wins the event, there will be accusations the course was set up too easy for them. If they don't get near the lead, accusations it was set up too difficult for them.

However, could you have an event that was 50% men and 50% women. Either play in 2 balls, or even 4 balls and have each group half and half. And then have a male and a female winner? Perhaps. They are competing against their peers consistently, yet you cover both sexes within the same tournament. Or maybe even a once a year mixed pairs event. I know they have a male pairs event at some point during the season (which I never watch), but a mixed pairs event might be more interesting. Maybe pair up the top seed male with the top seed female, and so on.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Did it elevate the profile of an event that is effectively off season? Yes, I'm sure it did. Would it elevate the profile of bigger events mid season, I'm not so sure. However, if Alexi Thompson did play in popular mid season event (or even in an event like last week), does it truly raise the profile of the woman's game if she is struggling to make the cut? Does it elevate the women's game when she is getting praised for her performance, and yet still missing the cut? I don't think it necessarily does.

If it was done more often, I think the novelty would quickly wear off. I think some would then criticise women playing in an event that they struggle to ever compete in, and taking the spot of some male golfers who may well have a better chance. And if they went off forward tees, then even if they get a score up there with the leaders, it will mean little to the fans given that the female is playing a different course. If a female wins the event, there will be accusations the course was set up too easy for them. If they don't get near the lead, accusations it was set up too difficult for them.

However, could you have an event that was 50% men and 50% women. Either play in 2 balls, or even 4 balls and have each group half and half. And then have a male and a female winner? Perhaps. They are competing against their peers consistently, yet you cover both sexes within the same tournament. Or maybe even a once a year mixed pairs event. I know they have a male pairs event at some point during the season (which I never watch), but a mixed pairs event might be more interesting. Maybe pair up the top seed male with the top seed female, and so on.

I don’t understand the objection to women playing off different tees. Ladies playing off forward tees is fundamentally accepted within golf. The female tours will frequently play the same courses as the men, off an advanced tee - dies it really matter if the pro game mirrors the amateur game and has that as part of a mixed competition - did it matter when Linn Grant won the Scandi mixed?

For me, the tours are full of events that are the same old same old, there’s plenty of scope to shake things up without remotely threatening the validity of male and female pro golf, describing it as a novelty is a little short sighted imho, especially given the co-participation of the sexes in the game at amateur competitive level, and the game as a social pastime.

Your last point, absolutely - a mixed Matchplay event - Ryder Cup format - but same sex pairings in the Sunday Singles would be a great even in my view.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don’t understand the objection to women playing off different tees. Ladies playing off forward tees is fundamentally accepted within golf. The female tours will frequently play the same courses as the men, off an advanced tee - dies it really matter if the pro game mirrors the amateur game and has that as part of a mixed competition - did it matter when Linn Grant won the Scandi mixed?

For me, the tours are full of events that are the same old same old, there’s plenty of scope to shake things up without remotely threatening the validity of male and female pro golf, describing it as a novelty is a little short sighted imho, especially given the co-participation of the sexes in the game at amateur competitive level, and the game as a social pastime.

Your last point, absolutely - a mixed Matchplay event - Ryder Cup format - but same sex pairings in the Sunday Singles would be a great even in my view.

If you want to play a tournament to find the best player then you need to be playing the same course, same length etc. That's what pro golf is about. Anything else is a compromise, a manipulation.

The best suggestion I've seen so far, my opinion, nothing more, is a comp where the men and women are playing at the same time, alternative groups teeing off, different tees, different competitions. That could have legs.

Comps like the Scandi mixed, not for me .