150 Yards Out
- Thread starter timhowe
- Start date
ManinBlack
Tour Winner
I disagree with you.
Unless on a VERY tight course I would use a driver most times to get as close to the green as possible. If I finish in semi rough or fairway with a wedge to the green I have a great chance of hitting the green. If I am in thick rough, then it's a hack out, wedge to the green & possible one putt par, bogey at worst. Leaving myself 150 yards out every time, I couldn't guarantee hitting the green often enough.
Learn to drive it straight enough to miss the thick stuff & practice the short game a lot. Works for me!
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Not quite sure why you would have this as a hard and fast rule. If there are minimal hazards surely a driver would be preferable as it would leave a much shorter second shot...you might rip one and get close to the green giving a better birdie opportunity than, say, a mid iron from 150 (unless you are the OP hitting it close from 150 all the time)
Exactly , come Summer there are plenty of drivable par 4s why limit yourself?
badgermat
Club Champion
From the sound of it he was referring to Mark Brodie's book Every Shot Counts.
This is based many thousands of amateur and professional game stats, and concludes (broadly) that as long as you're not actually out of bounds, regardless of whether you're in the rough, tees or fairway you'll score better if your drive is closer to the pin. And that the drive is the most important shot of any hole.
His stats drive a truck through the conventional wisdom that it's the short game that counts, and suggest that even the best pros are only marginally better than average players at putting.
I'm not sure he was taking my power-fade slice into consideration though
bm
MadAdey
Money List Winner
I suppose it also depends on the sort of distance you hit the ball. If you only drive it 220 yards and hit a 6i 150 then maybe you need to hit driver, or you'll not have much chance of making pars. But people who talk about driving greens obviously hits a long ball. So why risk putting it in the rough on a short hole, struggling for par, when another club that leaves you in the fairway with a nice little wedge in?
Maybe some of us are fortunate enough to hit a long ball, so we do have options on par 4's. For me 350 yards is a 3W and an easy GW, so all hitting driver does is leave me with a little half shot that is harder to control the distance on and it also increases the chance of not being in the fairway.
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MadAdey
Money List Winner
From the sound of it he was referring to Mark Brodie's book Every Shot Counts.
This is based many thousands of amateur and professional game stats, and concludes (broadly) that as long as you're not actually out of bounds, regardless of whether you're in the rough, tees or fairway you'll score better if your drive is closer to the pin. And that the drive is the most important shot of any hole.
His stats drive a truck through the conventional wisdom that it's the short game that counts, and suggest that even the best pros are only marginally better than average players at putting.
I'm not sure he was taking my power-fade slice into consideration though
bm
Not sure that hitting a ball within 50 yards of the green with a driver but having to hack it out of the trees is a better option than leaving it 100 yards back in the fairway......
I agree that your tee shot is very important to any handicap golfer. But putting it in play is more important than hitting it as far down the hole as possible.
Dasit
Tour Rookie
Not sure that hitting a ball within 50 yards of the green with a driver but having to hack it out of the trees is a better option than leaving it 100 yards back in the fairway......
I agree that your tee shot is very important to any handicap golfer. But putting it in play is more important than hitting it as far down the hole as possible.
A shot that ends 50 yards shorter than your driver isn't going to magically be on the fairway every time.
Think it is a bit of a fallacy using a drive in the trees vs a shot of the fairway.
badgermat
Club Champion
Not sure that hitting a ball within 50 yards of the green with a driver but having to hack it out of the trees is a better option than leaving it 100 yards back in the fairway......
Oh I share your doubt, I really do. But that is exactly Brodie's contention, based on the numbers (actual shots in actual games played).
It wouldn't be the first time that "conventional wisdom" or even "the bleedin' obvious" was disproven by detailed statistical analysis of the real world though.
To be fair, I think the distance differential has to be fairly sizeable (35 yds plus) for Brodie's analysis to work. But it's an interesting theory nonetheless.
bm
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MadAdey
Money List Winner
So your tour pros are hitting around 6 or 7 out of 10 fairways, your normal handicap golfer is probably hitting 4/5 out of 10 with a driver. So I have a choice of hitting it 270-280 yards and finding 5/10 fairways, or as you said hitting it 50 yards shorter and hitting it 230 with my hybrid, which if I'm not hitting the fairway I would be horrified. I can't even remember that last time I used my rescue I didn't find the fairway to be honest.
I've put a couple of pics in this post to give an example of why take a driver and get in trouble. The hole is about 400 to the middle of the green from an elevated tee that gives you about an extra 10 yards with what ever you hit. The water cuts in at about 240 yards and cuts across at about 280. If your in those trees on the left you really have no shot to the green and the water also stops you from trying to run one up short of the green and if you do get it over the water the slope stops it running anywhere. The green is more elevated than the pic shows and requires hitting at least 1 extra club than normal to get it up there. So 2 choices for me as there is a risk I will run out of fairway with a driver. 3W and leave an 8i to the middle of the green, or hit my rescue into the widest part and leave a 6i. How would you play it?
Dasit
Tour Rookie
Not sure why you are getting so worked up and using loaded examples to make your point.
No one is saying use your driver for every par 4 or par 5.
There is clear evidence that distance is more important than accuracy. Doesn't mean shooting the ball off the planet, just means dropping your FiR down a few percent so your average approach is less.
No one is saying use your driver for every par 4 or par 5.
There is clear evidence that distance is more important than accuracy. Doesn't mean shooting the ball off the planet, just means dropping your FiR down a few percent so your average approach is less.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
My example is from my track, that's why I used it as I know the hole. It's a perfect example why I do not agree with distance over accuracy. Go to where I play with that Bermuda rough and tell me that you don't care about being in the rough. If it's all about distance from the tee then why don't the tour pros use a driver on every hole? It's because even though it's nice to get it out there to leave a shorter approach, sometimes it's more important to be on the fairway, even though you will have a longer approach.
bobmac
Major Champion
I'm with Adey on this one.
You can't just say one part of the game is more important than the other.
You'll never be any good if you cant hit any fairways with the driver
You'll never be any good if you miss every green
You'll never be any good if you 3 putt every green
If you want to be a good player, ALL parts of the game need to be good.
It's just easier to improve the short game, you just buy more wedges
Really? Distance is more important. No good to me if I hit it 260-270 and find 4/10 fairways and what if I can't find it at all in the rough or the trees and playing three off the tee. Give me short and playable every time. Easier to make a score when you can see it, and play forward rather than under trees. Sorry but I'll have to disagree with you on this
SAPCOR1
Journeyman Pro
Decent strategy if it is used as a building block for continuous improvement. Biggest fly in the ointment that I can see that it is a one course model.
I always thought it was a good idea to regularly play different courses to get you out of your comfort zone (says the man who only played two courses in 2016 🤔
I always thought it was a good idea to regularly play different courses to get you out of your comfort zone (says the man who only played two courses in 2016 🤔
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
I agree with this. Yeah most of the time semi rough or fairway doesn't make a lot of difference to my next shot if a short club is in my hand.
The only thing I am missing is to learn to drive it straight enough to miss the thick stuff/trees some of the time, DOH
I only carry a driver about 220 yards plus rollout in summer, so need every bit of distance tbh. I think some people on the thread who are talking about 270 yards on a drive are playing a different game and have a lot more choices as they are just hitting everything so much longer. So can see both sides.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
I agree with this. Yeah most of the time semi rough or fairway doesn't make a lot of difference to my next shot if a short club is in my hand.
The only thing I am missing is to learn to drive it straight enough to miss the thick stuff/trees some of the time, DOH
I only carry a driver about 220 yards plus rollout in summer, so need every bit of distance tbh. I think some people on the thread who are talking about 270 yards on a drive are playing a different game and have a lot more choices as they are just hitting everything so much longer. So can see both sides.
I did mention about that earlier. It is maybe easier for people that are fortunate enough to hit it a good distance to sit and criticize a shorter hitter that always needs a driver. You certainly do have a lot more options from the tee, be able to clear over 350 yards with a hybrid and PW compared to someone who needs a driver and an 8i, it is a different game.
Scozzy
Medal Winner
Its highlighting what we all face...can you beat old man par? Millions of ways to do it,very useful to shift it right out there with the big dog however I still rue the SF of club champs 3 yrs ago when I threw it away trying blow my opponent off the course with a huge length (and age!!)advantage over him.What happened? He was absolutely deadly with his wedge and putter,all of a sudden im spraying it everywhere,putting for halves and we went down 18 where I promptly hit a huuuge drive....out of bounds to hand him the tie! Shocking course management on my part and complete opposite on his..lesson? Know your game,I could of beat him with a 5iron off that tee.....him? 3w,hydrid and wedge to 10 ft while I putted for a 5 with my second ball.......not clever
Totally agree. Absolutely hate getting drawn against any senior in a match or knockout. You know they won't hit it far, usually straight or no more than first cut and will usually be deadly from 100 yards and in. Add in the fact you're also usually given shots and it's a potent force to overcome. They know what they can and can't do, when to use their shots etc. In fact, I bet if you compared some of these older guys scores in medals and stablefords to a long hitting player who goes for it all the time, the strategist will have a far more consistent and better tally over a period of time
Coffey
Challenge Tour Pro
Reminds me of our winter league.
Its pairs and my partner cant play golf.
So it is basically up to me in our matches but its impossible to win as they are just so consistent. They never lose balls and hit almost every fairway, add that to the fact that I give them shots. I hit the ball well past them but they just get the ball to the green nice and easy and 1 putt it.
They are very very consistent, unlikely have that very low round but will always be around their handicap.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
The thing is,
We dont play 72 hole stroke play comps. 4 decent rounds doesnt get you much.
There is something to be said about being a little more aggressive with our approach to the game.
Especially for handicap purposes. An agressive player might pick up 2 .1s , a buffer and big cut from 4 games where as safe play might get 4 buffers.
I tend to veer towards safe play. Definitely going to try for more agressive rounds this year. Its just finding the right balance and knowing when to go for it.
We dont play 72 hole stroke play comps. 4 decent rounds doesnt get you much.
There is something to be said about being a little more aggressive with our approach to the game.
Especially for handicap purposes. An agressive player might pick up 2 .1s , a buffer and big cut from 4 games where as safe play might get 4 buffers.
I tend to veer towards safe play. Definitely going to try for more agressive rounds this year. Its just finding the right balance and knowing when to go for it.
