14 Hcap v Tiger... Office Argument

I'm not so sure that it would be so clear cut.

I played in the Ping ProAm with a tour player, admittedly not of Tigers standard, but a guy in the world top 500. We were at a course id never played and him once before. He shot, I think, 2 over par and I putted poorly but would have played around my handicap (10) and I par'd the two holes that he bogied, and I par'd several holes that he did too.

So if he gave me 10 shots and also did 2 bogies , and assuming that several of those par holes were shot holes I could easily have won 10 of those holes and then also give me home advantage where I know the putts better and I could see maybe not a win but definitely not a 10 and 8 loss

Add in the Tiger factor and he would be better - no, I can see a 5 and 4 win for Tiger maybe providing nerves didn't get the better of the amateur!
 
Both playing off scratch it would be a massacre but with 14 shots I dont think it's unreasonable to assume that on some of the shot holes the 14 handicap will make par and tiger wouldn't make birdie so to say the 14 handicap would lose every single hole isn't quite right in my humble opinion.
 
As they are BOTH PLAYING OFF SCRATCH, Tiger would murder him, though I don't believe it would be 10&8!

Par 3s could well be halved or even perhaps a fluke Birdie by the hacker for a win! And Tiger is not guaranteed to Birdie every Par 4.

I'd go for at least a Dog license though - 8&7 probably more likely!

But it still reminds me of the WGC Match against Stephen Ames!
 
Harrington told us roughly this at Carton House at the XPS-1 fitting...

His brother is off of 10 and they say a Pro is about +6. If they played the Montgomery Course at Carton House, Paddy played off the tips (Blues I think) and his brother the whites, Paddy would give him 10 shots and it would be a good game.

If his brother wanted to play from the tips with Paddy he would give him 16 shots and it would be a good game.

If the course was setup for a tour event it wouldn't matter which tees or how many shots were given because his brother wouldn't win.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Harrington told us roughly this at Carton House at the XPS-1 fitting...

His brother is off of 10 and they say a Pro is about +6. If they played the Montgomery Course at Carton House, Paddy played off the tips (Blues I think) and his brother the whites, Paddy would give him 10 shots and it would be a good game.

If his brother wanted to play from the tips with Paddy he would give him 16 shots and it would be a good game.

If the course was setup for a tour event it wouldn't matter which tees or how many shots were given because his brother wouldn't win.
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I think the way Paddy is playing his brother might just beat him now.
 
BTatHome said:
The course would be a big factor. The ability for tiger to hit long irons and still match a handicappers driver could be a big factor.
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I think tiger would be more interested in playing from the fairway than matching the high handicapers drive in the rough or the woods, fairway all the way.......
 
woody69 said:
Do you work with children? "heated and personal"? Over a hypothetical scenario? I hope you don't talk about politics and religion.
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it wasn't me that got heated, I wasn't party to the original dispute. but the original argument was how colleague 1 would fare against TW. colleague 1's assumptions about his own abilities didn't match colleague 2's assessment of colleague 1's abilities, hence the rise in temperature.
 
chrisd said:
I'm not so sure that it would be so clear cut.

I played in the Ping ProAm with a tour player, admittedly not of Tigers standard, but a guy in the world top 500. We were at a course id never played and him once before. He shot, I think, 2 over par and I putted poorly but would have played around my handicap (10) and I par'd the two holes that he bogied, and I par'd several holes that he did too.

So if he gave me 10 shots and also did 2 bogies , and assuming that several of those par holes were shot holes I could easily have won 10 of those holes and then also give me home advantage where I know the putts better and I could see maybe not a win but definitely not a 10 and 8 loss

Add in the Tiger factor and he would be better - no, I can see a 5 and 4 win for Tiger maybe providing nerves didn't get the better of the amateur!
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The OP states both players play of scratch so all the above does not come into it even if it did the high guy would get destroyed simple.
 
my thoughts were that a 14 handicapper would average about 6 pars per round. now half of those occur on holes that aren't played while the match is alive, so if Tiger birdies those holes, he wins the hole anyway.

assuming that the difficulty of the hole is matched by the 14 handicapper's ability to par it, then those might be the holes that TW is most easily able to birdie, so he's only looking to be 3 under or so for 10 holes and he's 10 and 8. maybe one in three chance he pars that hole as well and the hole is halved, leading to a 9 and 8 victory. i'd reckon 3 under over a standard member's course for 9 holes would be very routine for TW.

I can't see a 14 handicap making it to 7 and 5. I think the gulf is just too wide.
 
BoadieBroadus said:
my thoughts were that a 14 handicapper would average about 6 pars per round. now half of those occur on holes that aren't played while the match is alive, so if Tiger birdies those holes, he wins the hole anyway.

assuming that the difficulty of the hole is matched by the 14 handicapper's ability to par it, then those might be the holes that TW is most easily able to birdie, so he's only looking to be 3 under or so for 10 holes and he's 10 and 8. maybe one in three chance he pars that hole as well and the hole is halved, leading to a 9 and 8 victory. i'd reckon 3 under over a standard member's course for 9 holes would be very routine for TW.

I can't see a 14 handicap making it to 7 and 5. I think the gulf is just too wide.
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I agree with most of what you say but 6 pars a round..
 
I expect the 14 capper might make a few pars and tiger won't birdie everything so it depends... I'm thinking round an average track no bogeys at all are likely for tiger, so every hole the 14capper doesn't par is lost. It depends if tiger birdies the holes the mid capper pars, which wouldn't be unreasonable because they are probably the easier holes.

I'm going for a solitary halved hole where tiger lips out and misses his birdie putt. Mid capper's tricky 6footer for par is knocked of its line and into the hole when it hits an indentation left by Sergio in his adizeros in the group in front.
9 and 8 victory for tiger.
 
If they where playing a standard everyday members club, even if the 14 handicapper had a shot a hole Tiger would destroy him. When I look as Spalding GC, I would say that Tiger could probably drive 6 of the par 4's as he has the power and accuracy to take the ball over a tight corner and shape it at the green, basically making himself another 6 par 3's. If you look at Tiger on a good day not an out of this world day he will shoot -4 on a Tour course, IMO that would probably relate to -8 round your local track.

If a 14 handicapper had a shot a hole then I think he would get into the back 9, but how far in before loosing, maybe not much past the 13th.
 
I think the 14 handicapper would start off badly due to nerves but would find a par or two somewhere. If that's a shot holes (assuming shots given) then that could nick one back. I'd plump for an 8&7 but off scratch then I reckon 10&8 is achievable
 
Don't understand why some keep mentioning strokes given - they are playing off scratch in this scenario :mmm:

I think there is a good chance of one or two holes being halved, I play off 15 and expect 6 to 10 pars per round, a couple of doubles as well, but seeing as it's matchplay that doesn't matter! So 8 & 7 or 7 & 6 seems a likely result to me.

Strokeplay would be a different matter entirely, I would suspect Tiger to threaten 60 round my home course!
 
some high expectations of pars per round going on here for mid handicaps? Not having a dig but playing off you really expect 10 pars per round? Think your handicap is obviously due to come down soon.
 
Whereditgo said:
Don't understand why some keep mentioning strokes given - they are playing off scratch in this scenario :mmm:

I think there is a good chance of one or two holes being halved, I play off 15 and expect 6 to 10 pars per round, a couple of doubles as well, but seeing as it's matchplay that doesn't matter! So 8 & 7 or 7 & 6 seems a likely result to me.

Strokeplay would be a different matter entirely, I would suspect Tiger to threaten 60 round my home course!
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6 to 10 pars per round, off 15?!

The only problem I see with your logic is assuming that Tiger will only par the holes that you par. Surely if a 15 h'capper can par them, he is much more likely to birdie them? Off scratch, I could see may 1 hole harved, to make it 9 and 8.
 
If both playing of scratch then I would fully expect Woods to win every hole bar maybe one

If off Handicaps then I think it could be a totally different matter
 
MadAdey said:
If they where playing a standard everyday members club, even if the 14 handicapper had a shot a hole Tiger would destroy him. When I look as Spalding GC, I would say that Tiger could probably drive 6 of the par 4's as he has the power and accuracy to take the ball over a tight corner and shape it at the green, basically making himself another 6 par 3's. If you look at Tiger on a good day not an out of this world day he will shoot -4 on a Tour course, IMO that would probably relate to -8 round your local track.

If a 14 handicapper had a shot a hole then I think he would get into the back 9, but how far in before loosing, maybe not much past the 13th.
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A lot of sense in this post.
 
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