Your thoughts on lessons from PGA pros

[Orikoru]

I hear you. I can practise for 5 to 20 minutes a night in the back garden with those little plastic balls but I really only get one round a week.

For the most part I’ve worked through all of the swing issues as they arise but my problem is nothing ever sticks for long and it’s a constant cycle of inconsistency.

Yeah similar here. I'm quite happy with my swing, and my best golf is great, it's just that consistency which is the key word. If I played my best golf for the whole round I'd shoot 80 every time, but obviously a variable number of errors creep in there so I tend to shoot anywhere between 85 and 95. I'm trying to make sure I play twice a weekend over this summer when I don't have footy to think about, so I'm quietly hopeful even that small step up in playing time is doing me good.

 

[inc0gnito]

Yeah similar here. I'm quite happy with my swing, and my best golf is great, it's just that consistency which is the key word. If I played my best golf for the whole round I'd shoot 80 every time, but obviously a variable number of errors creep in there so I tend to shoot anywhere between 85 and 95. I'm trying to make sure I play twice a weekend over this summer when I don't have footy to think about, so I'm quietly hopeful even that small step up in playing time is doing me good.

I’m kinda hard on myself in a way. My local course is a 9 hole par 37. No idea what standard scratch is but Both left and right misses on 8 of the holes can easily equate to lost balls. Or hacking out of knee high rough if you find your ball. On other 18 hole courses my scores are much better. In the 90’s.

Additional playing time definitely helps.

 

[ger147]

Having been plagued with too many mechanical thoughts recently, it got me thinking about my hesitation with lessons.

I think the mantra “go see a pro” is probably tatooed onto the skins of many a forumer’s forehead. But I find the idea of seeing a pro very confusing. These days there is a lot of mixed messages that only serves to feel like you’re taking a risk with your money, and your swing.

To explain, if you do a quick search online you’ll find many posts about pros ruining people’s swings. These are largely anecdotal and who knows if these people followed the advice correctly. On the contrary, where’s there’s smoke there’s fire, right?

Secondly, if you watch a lot of YouTube or read magazines, you will inevitably hear vast differences in opinion about what a golf swing should look like. You will also hear a lot of people (pros) saying about how much misinformation there is out there, including from other well meaning pros.

In my one and only ‘proper’ lesson, the pro told me my hands were too high at the top of the backswing. Fine. Have heard that before from watching other player lessons. Then you have others saying it’s fine. Examples being Jack, a lot of George Gankas’ students inc Matt Wolff, and have heard Russell Heritage mention that high hands for some is fine because they lack external shoulder rotation. So who is right? Is anyone? In my two other ‘not really proper’ lessons, the bloke at affordable golf got me to cast the club and fire my hips. Even I knew enough then to not take that advice any further.

These three things create a lot of doubt about what’s right and what’s wrong, and where one should even get the correct information. It would be awesome to work with someone who knew you and knew what you needed, instead of feeling like your getting generic advice that may or may not be right for you.

What’s your thoughts on lessons from pro’s? Do you find it a mine field? Do you trust the pro, or take everything with a pinch of salt? How do you ‘swing your swing’ whilst still getting advice?

Depends on the pro first of all. Find one who you understands what you are looking for and can explain how they are going to try and hep you.

But the main thing is a question for yourself i.e. are you prepared to get worse for a period of time before you get better? It's not always the case that you will get worse of course but in my experience (including doing it myself in the past) is that the player is often very keen to have lessons to resolve an issue, but then doesn't do much if any practice to try and make the suggested changes stick, and at the first sign of a poor performance trying to employ the suggested changes, abandons the changes, resorts to their previous technique including all the flaws etc. and concludes the lesson hasn't worked as nothing has changed.

A lesson in itself is of no use if you don't follow through with the required practice and perseverance to see the benefits from the suggested change, it's still up to you to do the work required to try and improve. You won't automatically improve just by parting with cash for a lesson...

 

[DeanoMK]

I'm very lucky in that I've managed to find a pro who I really get on with, who teaches in a way that aligns perfectly with my way of learning.

I've had numerous lessons over the years from different people, none of them necessarily bad, but just not what I was after.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I dont really go for the fix it yourself thing, with youtube. If I have toothache, I dont pull random teeth, I go to the dentist. Likewise when not well I see a doctor. The internet has made us doubt the knowledge a specialist has.
I have lessons, and have done for some years. Not really for any other reason than I know i have strong hands that take over my swing, and create little errors that snowball. I go to my teaching pro as he knows what I'm like, and very quickly puts me back on track. The main thing is I manage to make a simple swing a complicated affair.

 

[Jacko_G]

I started going to Mark Loftus at Caldwell at the beginning of the year and he has been absolutely brilliant with me.

Within the first 6 swings of our first lesson he said to me "I'll tell you right now that is not your natural swing, that is manufactured!"

Next 15 minutes were spent on turning and no thoughts on "club position". Difference is night and day. All I can say is what has already been said by others, find a good pro, trust and stick with what they are asking you to do.

 

[*TQ*]

I completely agree there is a variable quality of golf pro out there but for me it's more a question of compatibility. I found a really good guy last year who I worked well with, he understood what I wanted and how to achieve it. Unfortunately he gave up teaching golf and for a while I felt lost, tried a few different pros but didn't 'click' with any single one. Fortunately I've found another good one (from a special offer introductory lesson) and am now playing the best golf I ever have. What really helped me was understanding what I need from a lesson in order to get the greatest benefit (and what really doesn't work for me), by being aware of it I can tell the pro who can tailor the lesson accordingly. I was very clear that for me I need to concentrate on one or two things and anything more than that will begin to confuse me, I also wanted the pro to know I will not feel like I've been 'ripped off' or not got 'value for money' if I pay them £40 for a lesson and they literally just tell me to make my stance slightly wider (for example), I've found some pros try to cram loads of different things into a lesson so they feel they've really worked for their money. From my point of view if I hit the ball better than I did at the start of the lesson then it's been successful regardless of how significant the change was but I have had to make this clear in order to get the best out of the lesson.

 

[duncan mackie]

The process people use to select their golf Pro is very similar to the one they use to select a you tube channel to follow....

Someone stated that they were concerned that having lessons would lead to to many swing thoughts - and reading forum posts, watching you tube channels and lessons doesn't?

The single biggest issues are not about selecting the pro but being open and honest with him about what your objectives are; then following through on the process (including subsequent checkpoints which pros at clubs and ranges tend to provide better than when visiting remote professionals.

Few more points -

The earlier you see a professional the less sticking plaster he will have to (painfully) remove to make real progress.

Which is also why point solutions are rarely simple!

If you arent going follow up on what's advised there isn't any point.

Biggest barrier to working with a professional is language.

I was fortunate enough to be selected for a point solution lesson with a top professional recently and the most noticeable thing was the time he spent establishing how I related certain language; it seemed a lengthy process (for a short session) but the result was that he was then able to use words and phrases that I related correctly to what he intended. Most professionals skip this stage completely relying on their knowledge of what they mean to get through...(I have been reminded from time to time of the incident a few years ago when unturned round to the pro the range and advised him that if he continued to use the same words, and simply shouted them louder and louder with increased frustration, it was extremely likely that inwould continue to swing the same way...)

Generally the pro is better at tuition than the pupil is at being a pupil 🤔

 

[Orikoru]

The process people use to select their golf Pro is very similar to the one they use to select a you tube channel to follow....

Someone stated that they were concerned that having lessons would lead to to many swing thoughts - and reading forum posts, watching you tube channels and lessons doesn't?

The single biggest issues are not about selecting the pro but being open and honest with him about what your objectives are; then following through on the process (including subsequent checkpoints which pros at clubs and ranges tend to provide better than when visiting remote professionals.

Not for me it doesn't. I don't watch a vast amount of content these days, but of the stuff I do watch I can select something that might be applicable to me to try out, and disregard everything. Just because someone watches 5 YouTubers, it doesn't mean they're trying to do everything that was said in every video. It's just a broad spectrum of information and you can pick the bits you like.

 

[Garush34]

Not for me it doesn't. I don't watch a vast amount of content these days, but of the stuff I do watch I can select something that might be applicable to me to try out, and disregard everything. Just because someone watches 5 YouTubers, it doesn't mean they're trying to do everything that was said in every video. It's just a broad spectrum of information and you can pick the bits you like.

Genuine question though - How do you know you are selecting the right bit for you to improve? As some faults can varying different root causes.

 

[Orikoru]

Genuine question though - How do you know you are selecting the right bit for you to improve? As some faults can varying different root causes.

Well I don't know until I try it out. I know what I'm trying to achieve with my swing and what's not working, so if I see something that might be applicable I'll give it a go on my next practise round. If I like it it stays, if I don't it goes. Pretty simple.

 

[Siolag]

I am about to start a course of lessons, along with my fiancé. We’ve said we want to ask the pro for 2.5 hours a week of practice to work on. We like playing together and can commit this type of time on top of getting out on the course. We also intend to take a good number of lessons.

As we are both fairly new golfers, it seems the time to do it. I’d be happy to be out at the practice area or range just now, but I have no idea what to do when there really, so spend nights out playing the course instead. In time I’ll probably do a combination of both.

 

[Garush34]

Well I don't know until I try it out. I know what I'm trying to achieve with my swing and what's not working, so if I see something that might be applicable I'll give it a go on my next practise round. If I like it it stays, if I don't it goes. Pretty simple.

But why not instead of the trial and error approach that could take a number of weeks or more to try and figure out, (that you may not get to the root cause of) get a pro to look over your swing and with his knowledge identify your issue and then work on fixing it correctly instead of bouncing around from thought to thought.

Also I wouldnt say one parctice round is enough to decide if something is working or not. Time on the range working on it is where the work should be done.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Well I don't know until I try it out. I know what I'm trying to achieve with my swing and what's not working, so if I see something that might be applicable I'll give it a go on my next practise round. If I like it it stays, if I don't it goes. Pretty simple.

Not really.
Being one who is self taught and developed many faults, I can honestly say that I can easily cover one fault with another fault. Unless you have the eye of the specialist to see where you're going wrong and then advise you how to correct it, your swing is unlikely to be one thats repeatable easily and simply.

 

[patricks148]

There's 2 approaches for me, the pros who will try and teach you the swing out of the manual and those who will work with that you have got. For me the latter is the only option (im never going to be textbook and ive been swinging this way too long for an overhaul) and need a pro who can work with what Ive got.

I know my swing pretty well and can often self diagnose if I have a camera and ideally trackman or similar but sometimes its far easier to get a fresh pair of eyes and fault fix from an expert (that you trust and can communicate well to you).

This is fine for smallish changes, I think where the problems often come is when people are looking to make much larger changes to something that feels totally unnatural to them and a lot of the time dont practise well enough what they have been taught, dont see results fast enough and then revert back to old bad habits.

First question I would always ask yourself is why are you having a lesson, what do you want to achieve from it and then communicate that to the pro

this

 

[*TQ*]

I'm very aware of putting a fault on top of another fault if I try to fix it myself. I'm far from an expert on the golf swing but I get the impression if you don't know what you're doing it's very easy to create a swing which is brilliant when it works but it depends on too many moving parts all being in sync meaning it's very easy for it to go wrong, I want my swing to be repeatible and for the bad shots to be as close to the good shots as possible; I don't think I'm going to come up with that myself (although I could get something which works through trial and error it won't be forgiving and will easily go wrong).

 

[Orikoru]

But why not instead of the trial and error approach that could take a number of weeks or more to try and figure out, (that you may not get to the root cause of) get a pro to look over your swing and with his knowledge identify your issue and then work on fixing it correctly instead of bouncing around from thought to thought.

Also I wouldnt say one parctice round is enough to decide if something is working or not. Time on the range working on it is where the work should be done.

I already said earlier I don't have the time or inclination to spend hours down the driving range.

Not really.
Being one who is self taught and developed many faults, I can honestly say that I can easily cover one fault with another fault. Unless you have the eye of the specialist to see where you're going wrong and then advise you how to correct it, your swing is unlikely to be one thats repeatable easily and simply.

I'm not really one to get bogged down in 'swing faults'. If it goes more-or-less where I aimed I'm happy. I just prefer a simple more organic approach really. I find it more enjoyable not to be overthinking my swing too much.

 

[Jacko_G]

I am about to start a course of lessons, along with my fiancé. We’ve said we want to ask the pro for 2.5 hours a week of practice to work on. We like playing together and can commit this type of time on top of getting out on the course. We also intend to take a good number of lessons.

As we are both fairly new golfers, it seems the time to do it. I’d be happy to be out at the practice area or range just now, but I have no idea what to do when there really, so spend nights out playing the course instead. In time I’ll probably do a combination of both.

Seems like a sensible way of doing it. Hopefully your pro will chat with you both about what you want to achieve and what he/she can do for you.

 

[larmen]

For me it is invaluable. I can’t even imagine playing golf without. I fall back into bad habits too quickly.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've used a few different pros over the last twenty years (well four, one of which no longer teaches and one who moved away) and all of these have been local and usually based on local recommendations. Each has definitely had different approaches and there was only one that I thought over complicated matters. The one I have used for the last four years came highly recommended by some of our better golfers. He has a simple approach to teaching and doesn't uses technology (launch monitors etc unless you really want that info) but like a look of good pros uses a trained eye and years of experience. He is responsive to questions and the feedback during and after lessons is great.

If I was looking these days I'd start with good word of mouth recommendations and feedback, look at where they teach and how they teach. It can be a tricky process but I think its invaluable to be able to get solid and reliable information and understand and more importantly implement what changes are made.