Your Natural Swing

[Sweep]

When the guy is talking in the car before his lesson, everything he said applies to me.
Quite amazing how the tutor hits the ball but it’s almost like a trick shot demo. That said, I will give it a go at a quiet time, if only to help me relax a bit more. That is the most relaxed and seemingly most effective swing I have seen in a long time.

 

[DeanoMK]

If you want to swing naturally and control the ball then you should try what nice faldo does and just thinking about how you want the swing to finish.

I think he said he had something like 7 different follow throughs to play all manner of different shots. Don't worry abut the back swing. Just turn behind the ball. Worry about how you want to finish. For example is it a held off kind of swing for a cut or a low wristy action through the finish for a low hook.

A recent example of a tour pro implementing this is Patrick reed doing the helicopter finish to play a cut. Works brilliantly for him.

I like that idea. In the video the guy does stress about finishing the swing and holding it. I know, for instance, if I want to play a cut then my arms finish high and over my head.

 

[DeanoMK]

When the guy is talking in the car before his lesson, everything he said applies to me.
Quite amazing how the tutor hits the ball but it’s almost like a trick shot demo. That said, I will give it a go at a quiet time, if only to help me relax a bit more. That is the most relaxed and seemingly most effective swing I have seen in a long time.

It's very impressive. I can't wait to try this method out, I'm excited for it even!

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Agree with what he says completely.

Whilst I do not quite do what he does, I very often in social round just play with an empty mind over the ball ie. looking at the ball but not thinking of anything, a very relaxing way of playing and amazing how well things go with just an empty mind during the swing.

 

[Grant85]

Very interesting, but Rob is going there as an experienced and already fairly able player.

However, certainly hammers home the point that you need to be relaxed to play good golf, and generally trying to hit the ball as hard as you can is not going to yield good results.

Surely with a brand new person he would have to teach more technical aspects to.

Also, I don't imagine this would work at the elite level. A lot of guys are good specifically because they can be so accurate and so precise.

 

[DeanoMK]

Very interesting, but Rob is going there as an experienced and already fairly able player.

However, certainly hammers home the point that you need to be relaxed to play good golf, and generally trying to hit the ball as hard as you can is not going to yield good results.

Surely with a brand new person he would have to teach more technical aspects to.

Also, I don't imagine this would work at the elite level. A lot of guys are good specifically because they can be so accurate and so precise.

I watched a video from another person last night and he tried this method left handed and within 15 minutes he was flushing it.

And on the elite level (as such), this is Sam Buss, a really decent up and coming prospect, with Brian Sparks who teaches basically the same swing:

[video=youtube;S0jhCKkGIRg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jhCKkGIRg&t=422s[/video]

 

[r0wly86]

I remember watching a video in GCSE PE which was interesting.

These sports scientist got in a good amateur footballer in to take penalties on the premise of analysing his technique.

He took 5 penalties and every single one was perfect, well struck, top corner, with pace.

They then told him that a premier league scout was going to be watching the videos as he had done so well.

His next 5 were total trash, going over the bar, going wide and one where he duffed the shot completely and it barely reached the goal.

The lesson was that when under pressure, we start to consciously analyse our movements and technique. When your movements move to the conscious part of your brain they become more broken. Have you played golf and you are consciously thinking, take away, one piece with shoulders, now I hinge my wrists, now I start my body turn etc.

But when you use the subconscious part of your brain, your body just moves naturally in one movement. Again have you played a shot that you just didn't think about, it was a lovely strike, you were perfectly balanced after and it went a long way without you thinking you swung very hard.

It's what professionals call being in "the zone" when your subconscious just completely takes over and you move naturally because you conscious brain isn't breaking down each movement into tiny parts

 

[Sweep]

I remember watching a video in GCSE PE which was interesting.

These sports scientist got in a good amateur footballer in to take penalties on the premise of analysing his technique.

He took 5 penalties and every single one was perfect, well struck, top corner, with pace.

They then told him that a premier league scout was going to be watching the videos as he had done so well.

His next 5 were total trash, going over the bar, going wide and one where he duffed the shot completely and it barely reached the goal.

The lesson was that when under pressure, we start to consciously analyse our movements and technique. When your movements move to the conscious part of your brain they become more broken. Have you played golf and you are consciously thinking, take away, one piece with shoulders, now I hinge my wrists, now I start my body turn etc.

But when you use the subconscious part of your brain, your body just moves naturally in one movement. Again have you played a shot that you just didn't think about, it was a lovely strike, you were perfectly balanced after and it went a long way without you thinking you swung very hard.

It's what professionals call being in "the zone" when your subconscious just completely takes over and you move naturally because you conscious brain isn't breaking down each movement into tiny parts

As an over thinker, this post got my attention.
A little bit like the book The Inner Game Of Golf by W Timothy Gallwey.
Maybe I should re-read it and take more notice.

 

[DeanoMK]

Played 9 holes yesterday and my only swing thoughts were pushing off my left leg and pushing off my right, nothing else. Swing felt lovely.

Also, I was experimenting with putting looking at the hole and it was working a treat, was lagging my putts to perfection. Going to need a bit of practice before I'm totally confident with it, but I'm happy to go with it.

 

[Dibby]

Hit it but never committed like Rob or the tutor in the video. Quiet practice ground and I'll give it a go. Not holding my breath though and while I can see the theory not sure I'm brave enough to stick to it let alone on a course

If you think you have failed before you even start, you are almost certainly setting yourself up to fail.

That's not a criticism, just an observation. If you are going to do something, you have to believe you can do it successfully, or you shouldn't bother. If you honestly believe you can't do something or will mess it up, do something else instead that will improve your belief in your capability to do the original task, and when you have this belief, only then go and do the original task.

 

[Dibby]

I remember watching a video in GCSE PE which was interesting.

These sports scientist got in a good amateur footballer in to take penalties on the premise of analysing his technique.

He took 5 penalties and every single one was perfect, well struck, top corner, with pace.

They then told him that a premier league scout was going to be watching the videos as he had done so well.

His next 5 were total trash, going over the bar, going wide and one where he duffed the shot completely and it barely reached the goal.

The lesson was that when under pressure, we start to consciously analyse our movements and technique. When your movements move to the conscious part of your brain they become more broken. Have you played golf and you are consciously thinking, take away, one piece with shoulders, now I hinge my wrists, now I start my body turn etc.

But when you use the subconscious part of your brain, your body just moves naturally in one movement. Again have you played a shot that you just didn't think about, it was a lovely strike, you were perfectly balanced after and it went a long way without you thinking you swung very hard.

It's what professionals call being in "the zone" when your subconscious just completely takes over and you move naturally because you conscious brain isn't breaking down each movement into tiny parts

I'd never heard of this particular study, but I knew the concept, and it is absolutely critical to performance in any sport.

This is why so many people fail to improve despite lessons and everything else they do. At the end of the day, it comes down to being able to trust your mind and body to do what it has to do without conscious thought.

Average human reaction time to touch is about 0.15 seconds, sight and sound are longer. Think about how long a golf swing takes, about a second. If that is roughly a 3 to 1 ratio of backswing to downswing, and assuming the follow through takes the same time as the downswing (even though in reality it would take longer because the club is decelerating), you have 0.6 seconds for your backswing and 0.2 to get to the ball from the top. By the time you react to your takeaway, you will already be about 2/3 of the way through the backswing, by the time you react to the start of the downswing, you have all but hit the ball. There is no time for a conscious reaction to anything.

So you have some people that are naturally good, which helps because the swing is already subconscious. For those that don't have this, they need to use techniques to gain an unconscious swing that does the business. There is a lot of researching happening in this area, but also some interesting developments which will ultimately lead to changes in how people are coached and taught.

Athletes coming from other sports often have an advantage, not only because the movement patterns they have but because they have experienced different styles of coaching from that of traditional golf coaching, so have additional "tools" to develop subconcious movement.

 

[Roops]

Some great posts on this thread. Pretty much why I stopped having lessons and did my own thing, with pretty good success. I have always though that the big difference between the single figure players and mid handicappers is that the SFP's already have the swing part as a natural motion. The MHP's have to work at the swing, so that becomes a conscious thought. They then have to try and forget the conscious thoughts when actually playing, which is really hard to do. Fascinating subject, and I am sure that the key to playing better more often is less critical thoughts and more creative thoughts.

 

[garyinderry]

Does anyone actually believe Harrington when he says he has no swing thoughts on the course?


Looking at his latest swing I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Foxholer]

Great vid! Thoroughly agree with the principles.

Lots of similarities with the teaching of Brian Sparks's Positive Impact Golf demonstrating here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURbeXGkeCU and talking about the philosophy here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2lMlR0GTA

Edit: Just scrolled back and saw a post with vid of Sparks discussing the effects of his approach with Sam Buss!

I know a Pro who is a committed Positive Impact guy - qualified for Seniors open a few years ago. Sparks was Head Pro at (the fabulous) Les Bordes where his technique was called 'La Danse du Golf'.

 

[pendodave]

Great vid! Thoroughly agree with the principles.

Lots of similarities with the teaching of Brian Sparks's Positive Impact Golf demonstrating here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURbeXGkeCU and talking about the philosophy here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2lMlR0GTA

Edit: Just scrolled back and saw a post with vid of Sparks discussing the effects of his approach with Sam Buss!

I know a Pro who is a committed Positive Impact guy - qualified for Seniors open a few years ago. Sparks was Head Pro at (the fabulous) Les Bordes where his technique was called 'La Danse du Golf'.

Might send the sparks' vid to my dad - looks perfect for him. I've never seen this before, despite watching a fair amount of tube golf, so thanks for posting.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Turns out the original video Rob McGarr put out has created a social media fall out

To be honest I think the other guy and his content is an idiot (infraction avoided!) and his content is completely click bait to get as much publicity and attention (with little credible substance)

 

[Curls]

To be honest I think the other guy and his content is an idiot (infraction avoided!) and his content is completely click bait to get as much publicity and attention (with little credible substance)

Could not agree more homer he is unwatchable- and the video I watched which was short game in two minutes gives the impression he's come up with that technique himself. It's blatantly taking credit without referencing anyone, now that's theiving!

I think the swearing and attitude is just "young people", to me it's cringe but I'm 40 now so what do I know?! McGarr sounds like a good bloke, probably ever expected when he started this journey that he'd have to deal with beef. Ridiculous situation and only mortifying for the aforementioned idiot.

 

[Hobbit]

Going off at a huge tangent, just think about what you do when you throw a scrunched up ball of paper into a bin. You don't think about thumb down the line, or feet x.7345 inches apart. You do it naturally. There is a 'basic' way to hold the club, and a natural stance. There is a natural way you clap your hands... if the left hand is further over the right it there is more power in that hand. If you don't have your hands in a neutral position you'll either slice or hook.

I know it sounds very simplistic but I do believe we over complicate what is almost a natural reaction to how you hit something. Think about it. If I give you an axe, and ask you to hit a piece of would in a certain place you won't give it a second thought and just do it. The vast majority of of golf teaching over complicates some very basic principles, and the vast majority of us fall for it, and the hype surrounding it.

Just go out there and hit the damn ball. Find it and hit it again. Worry about the finer points after you've read Aimpoint.

 

[DeanoMK]

Going off at a huge tangent, just think about what you do when you throw a scrunched up ball of paper into a bin. You don't think about thumb down the line, or feet x.7345 inches apart. You do it naturally. There is a 'basic' way to hold the club, and a natural stance. There is a natural way you clap your hands... if the left hand is further over the right it there is more power in that hand. If you don't have your hands in a neutral position you'll either slice or hook.

I know it sounds very simplistic but I do believe we over complicate what is almost a natural reaction to how you hit something. Think about it. If I give you an axe, and ask you to hit a piece of would in a certain place you won't give it a second thought and just do it. The vast majority of of golf teaching over complicates some very basic principles, and the vast majority of us fall for it, and the hype surrounding it.

Just go out there and hit the damn ball. Find it and hit it again. Worry about the finer points after you've read Aimpoint.

Spot on.

And on the point of the 'beef' between Rob and Robin, it's a bit pathetic and I have to agree with what's been said, I watched a couple of Robin's videos but they're ultimately not for me.

 

[Orikoru]

Going off at a huge tangent, just think about what you do when you throw a scrunched up ball of paper into a bin. You don't think about thumb down the line, or feet x.7345 inches apart. You do it naturally. There is a 'basic' way to hold the club, and a natural stance. There is a natural way you clap your hands... if the left hand is further over the right it there is more power in that hand. If you don't have your hands in a neutral position you'll either slice or hook.

I know it sounds very simplistic but I do believe we over complicate what is almost a natural reaction to how you hit something. Think about it. If I give you an axe, and ask you to hit a piece of would in a certain place you won't give it a second thought and just do it. The vast majority of of golf teaching over complicates some very basic principles, and the vast majority of us fall for it, and the hype surrounding it.

Just go out there and hit the damn ball. Find it and hit it again. Worry about the finer points after you've read Aimpoint.

I largely agree with this. I think that's at least partially why I don't have lessons. I don't really want to be overthinking things when I'm out on the course. I've just fashioned a swing of my own that feels alright and gets me round.