Do golf coaches really have revolutionary views on how the swing works?

[Canary_Yellow]

I've watched probably more than my fair share of golf instruction on youtube, my preferred approach to learning is to have a lesson with my pro, understand the improvement that he wants me to make and then watch a few different videos to get thoughts from a few trusted online instructors on different thoughts / drills to see if any resonate.

If I stumble on to GolfWRX, or any of the US forums, there will always be a buzz about this instructor or that instructor that has this revolutionary idea about how to swing the club etc etc. But it's actually a load of rubbish, isn't it?

Aren't they pretty much all describing fundamentally the same swing, but just describing the feel that they think their students need to experience to achieve the result they're after? There are certainly some wildly different ideas on the feelings and drills that they teach, but seems to me, when it comes down to it, they're all trying to get us to do the same thing in the end.

For example, Gankas (Matt Wolff's coach) has generated quite a bit of buzz, Jake Hutt did a little while ago, Monte Scheinblum has his disciples, Mike Malaska, in the UK Chris Ryan, I'm missing loads, just selecting a few that I go to have a look at, all present their ideas quite differently (in some cases, very differently), but when you cut through the way they explain it, as I see it, they're all working on getting their students / followers in to the same positions.

Where I'm going with this from my perspective, is that when you hear people (and this is a GolfWRX thing rather than on here) saying that they are following the Gankas swing, or the Scheinblum or whoever, it's not actually a different swing, it's the same swing explained in a different way. So why limit yourself to just one source of info on how to do it?

Maybe I'm late to the party and this is a statement of the obvious given when you look at the impact position of pros, they are all remarkably similar.

 

[Orikoru]

My view is that it doesn't really matter what your swing looks like or what you do, all that matters is delivering the clubface to the ball consistently. There will be certain movements that achieve that more often, but it'll be different for each golfer depending on what they naturally find comfortable. I don't think there's one universal correct swing or one thing that'll work for everybody. I suppose what you're getting at is that the backswing and follow-through positions might all be different, but that ideal impact position is more-or-less similar.

Like you I watch golf content but there's only about 5% of it that I'll actually try and apply to my swing, the rest I might think "that's interesting but I don't think I can apply that to my swing". I kind of know what I can and can't do and I'm realistic about what I expect to get out of it.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Yes, take Wolff and Furyk as examples, what they do looks pretty different. But actually, when it comes to what happens between club parallel to the ground on downswing and follow through, they're probably much the same as all the other top players.

All the pros swings have their own idiosyncrasies that some people watch and latch on to, hoping that there is some kind of "magic" move in that. However, my view is that the more likely answer is that they are brilliant golfers in spite of that idiosyncrasy, that their natural athleticism / hand eye co-ordination allows them to do that and still be great.

I agree with you, swings will always look different because we're all built differently, there's no one way of doing it, but on the other hand, all very good swings have some fundamental things in common when it comes to the hitting zone. Teachers explain things in some very different ways, but they aren't explaining a dramatically different swing, they're describing feelings to try and get us to the same place that all the others are.

 

[GreiginFife]

My FiL is a pro and was a teaching pro for best part of 3 decades in the UK and across Europe. He has always maintained that the only important part of the swing is what happens 12" either side of the ball. The rest is what works for you, the main bit is what works for the ball.

 

[bobmac]

Don't mess with the 5 golf laws

 

[Bratty]

Don't mess with the 5 golf laws

Or the mother in laws...

 

[need_my_wedge]

My view is that it doesn't really matter what your swing looks like or what you do, all that matters is delivering the clubface to the ball consistently.

I think you've missed a key part here, no good if you are consistently delivering the club face closed (or open) to the ball. That's what I was doing, which results in a draw at best, but more often than not, a pull/ hook.

......For example, Gankas (Matt Wolff's coach) has generated quite a bit of buzz......

My lad is quite taken with Gankas at the moment, along with a Japanese coach that does something similar. He's using their method(s) to help shallow out his swing. Whether it works for him, only time will tell, and that depends on how much he gets on with it. I tried it yesterday as it happens, and struggled badly to do what they were asking. Although my coach did have me doing something similar a year or so back when I first went to him, it was a means to rectify a fault in the wrist.

I liken the golf swing to Aikido techniques. I can watch 10 or 20 different senior teachers do the same technique, and it will look different for all of them, but, the key is that they all apply the basic fundamentals of the technique. The golf swing is the same, we are all different, and move in different ways, but the basic fundamental is to get that club face back square at impact with a fairly balanced body moving towards the target. I'm no expert at this by any means, and have had more than my fair share of swing issues over the last few years, but I'm starting to understand the swing a bit more these days, understand what my coach is trying to get me doing, which means I understand better what goes wrong. The best thing about that, is that I am starting to enjoy playing a lot more now as I don't get upset with the bad swings, because I have a better clue as to what I did.

Addendum:
From the Aikido perspective, when I teach, I teach the same technique a lot of different ways. This is because I often have to change something in order to help some understand the movement more than others, and can quite often be done by over exaggerating movement. It's not new or revolutionary teaching, just a means to help the understanding. As I said above, keeping the fundamental principle in place is still key though, regardless of what I tell them.

 

[fundy]

Don't mess with the 5 golf laws

Dont change your shoes in the car park
Never wear black socks with shorts
Dont add your score up halfway round, it will all go wrong if you do
You can talk to a fade but not a hook
Whats the 5th one Bob

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Dont change your shoes in the car park
Never wear black socks with shorts
Dont add your score up halfway round, it will all go wrong if you do
You can talk to a fade but not a hook
Whats the 5th one Bob

If you a call a putt in before it gets to the hole it will always miss

 

[bobmac]

Dont change your shoes in the car park
Never wear black socks with shorts
Dont add your score up halfway round, it will all go wrong if you do
You can talk to a fade but not a hook
Whats the 5th one Bob

According to Smiffy, always buy the last round

 

[Orikoru]

I think you've missed a key part here, no good if you are consistently delivering the club face closed (or open) to the ball. That's what I was doing, which results in a draw at best, but more often than not, a pull/ hook.

Well I meant to say consistently and well, I guess.

 

[Orikoru]

Dont change your shoes in the car park
Never wear black socks with shorts
Dont add your score up halfway round, it will all go wrong if you do
You can talk to a fade but not a hook
Whats the 5th one Bob

Never birdie the first hole..

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Never birdie the first hole..

Got to make your 1st birdie of the round somewhere, may as well make it on the 1st as it gives you 17 more chances to make some more ?

 

[davidy233]

If you a call a putt in before it gets to the hole it will always miss

Kevin Na seems to manage Ok with this - Caveat: he misses while walking them in occasionally

 

[Orikoru]

Got to make your 1st birdie of the round somewhere, may as well make it on the 1st as it gives you 17 more chances to make some more ?

Nope, whenever I birdie the 1st it ends up being one of my worst rounds of the year. It builds too much hope, or something.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Nope, whenever I birdie the 1st it ends up being one of my worst rounds of the year. It builds too much hope, or something.

Ah, the old getting ahead of yourself...
Look at it one in the bank to cancel out the inevitable bogey that is just around the corner

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I think you've missed a key part here, no good if you are consistently delivering the club face closed (or open) to the ball. That's what I was doing, which results in a draw at best, but more often than not, a pull/ hook.



My lad is quite taken with Gankas at the moment, along with a Japanese coach that does something similar. He's using their method(s) to help shallow out his swing. Whether it works for him, only time will tell, and that depends on how much he gets on with it. I tried it yesterday as it happens, and struggled badly to do what they were asking. Although my coach did have me doing something similar a year or so back when I first went to him, it was a means to rectify a fault in the wrist.

I liken the golf swing to Aikido techniques. I can watch 10 or 20 different senior teachers do the same technique, and it will look different for all of them, but, the key is that they all apply the basic fundamentals of the technique. The golf swing is the same, we are all different, and move in different ways, but the basic fundamental is to get that club face back square at impact with a fairly balanced body moving towards the target. I'm no expert at this by any means, and have had more than my fair share of swing issues over the last few years, but I'm starting to understand the swing a bit more these days, understand what my coach is trying to get me doing, which means I understand better what goes wrong. The best thing about that, is that I am starting to enjoy playing a lot more now as I don't get upset with the bad swings, because I have a better clue as to what I did.

Addendum:
From the Aikido perspective, when I teach, I teach the same technique a lot of different ways. This is because I often have to change something in order to help some understand the movement more than others, and can quite often be done by over exaggerating movement. It's not new or revolutionary teaching, just a means to help the understanding. As I said above, keeping the fundamental principle in place is still key though, regardless of what I tell them.

Yes, good points. Taking the way Gankas teaches shallowing as a case in point, it seems quite different because the description of the moves seem different. But actually, cutting through the exaggerated drills that he's asking his students to try, the concept that the club shaft needs to shallow to then attack from the inside with a stable club face is as old as time. What Gankas teaches is very much in line with Monte Scheinblum in my opinion, but that might not be easily recognised if you just did a simple comparison of the feelings they teach. Jake Hutt too.

What I'm seeing is some revolutionary stuff in terms of how the concepts of the golf swing are explained, but no changes to the golf swing. Yet you go on GolfWRX (or wherever) and there's this concept there is some new way of swinging that is fundamentally different. It's not!

 

[Tashyboy]

Right back on track.
As it happens me book came today. “The plane truth for golfers”, by Jim Hardy as recommended by folk on here. Only just started but the book already says things I can relate to.
The first main thing. Your physical condition. How flexible are you, how fit are you. Your core muscles. There’s a simple exercise he asks you to do. This determines what kind of a swing plane you can have. ( One or two).Me it looks like a swing plane 2. Missis T who don’t golf could do a swing plane 1 because she is more flexible. That for me is important because I am not trying to develop a swing I cannot physically achieve. Now here’s the thing. I have had lessons where I have been taught how to swing a club where I physically cannot get into that position. Bottom line, I am being taught the wrong swing and paying for it.
Now when I have had lessons I have been asked if I have any injuries which may restrict my ability but never had any exercises or tests to see how flexible I am. There’s a difference. Oddly enough the lesson I had last week was very similar to swing plane 2. But was that purely luck or was it through him seeing what I could do when I played with the pro the week before. I don’t know.

What this book has taught me is that if anyone is having lessons for the first time.The first 5 minutes should be used to asses a golfers physical ability before he even swings a club. Otherwise you may have a wanna be golfer that wants to mould his swing on Seve, who Does not have a cat in hells chance because of there physical ability.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Right back on track.
As it happens me book came today. “The plane truth for golfers”, by Jim Hardy as recommended by folk on here. Only just started but the book already says things I can relate to.
The first main thing. Your physical condition. How flexible are you, how fit are you. Your core muscles. There’s a simple exercise he asks you to do. This determines what kind of a swing plane you can have. ( One or two).Me it looks like a swing plane 2. Missis T who don’t golf could do a swing plane 1 because she is more flexible. That for me is important because I am not trying to develop a swing I cannot physically achieve. Now here’s the thing. I have had lessons where I have been taught how to swing a club where I physically cannot get into that position. Bottom line, I am being taught the wrong swing and paying for it.
Now when I have had lessons I have been asked if I have any injuries which may restrict my ability but never had any exercises or tests to see how flexible I am. There’s a difference. Oddly enough the lesson I had last week was very similar to swing plane 2. But was that purely luck or was it through him seeing what I could do when I played with the pro the week before. I don’t know.

What this book has taught me is that if anyone is having lessons for the first time.The first 5 minutes should be used to asses a golfers physical ability before he even swings a club. Otherwise you may have a wanna be golfer that wants to mould his swing on Seve, who Does not have a cat in hells chance because of there physical ability.

About a decade ago I went to my local pay and play (Downshire) to one of the pros there via word of mouth. I had been using one pro and he'd had knee surgery and wasn't teaching and the guy I did use was very technical (which initially I liked) but I felt we weren't moving forward. This guy at the Downshire had met Jim Hardy and was a qualified plane truth coach and so we embarked down this road. All good but he wanted me to be a one planer. I got it. I was progress this way but as you found out already it needs a degree of flexibility I couldn't deliver, especially on the down swing. Again we made some progress but it wasn't until I stopped seeing him (couldn't get a lesson as he was fully booked) and had a one off with the guy I have no used for the last five years, that we changed to a two plane and everything clicked.

Went back to the guy at Downshire and he worked with the two plane but every lesson felt liked we were re-inventing the wheel. I got the feeling he had the hump I had used someone else and he never really seem to teach with the same intensity. I gave him until the block of lessons I had booked and didn't rebook and ended up with the guy I use now. Far happier and he is a far better teacher.

 

[Oddsocks]

Don't mess with the 5 golf laws

Care to lay them out bob?

I do agree a lot with the op’s statement about a single swing, but it does not take into account potential limits of each player. This could be flexibility, previous injuries etc etc. o think what dictates a good pro is understanding your past experience, your current situation, and where you want to be.

The best coach I’ve had understood my 20 years of bad habits, acknowledged I was an over thinker and was aware of my previous injuries. Everything he process with with limited info and was solely in feel. He refused to explain why somethings happened etc and I played my best golf with him.

He relocated and I started having lessons with my club pro, he’s only interest was for me to get into all the perfect positions despite my knee injury, I could play great golf for 7 holes, ok for 2 holes, walk off after 9 holes as I couldn’t walk.