Wyndham Clark illegal putting alignment ?

[Swango1980]

With all of the cameras at tournaments, with other players seeing what is going on, the players / caddies would not be able to fiddle the system. They would soon get used to it and just leave the player to it. That's all, just let the player do their thing.

In terms of your latter point, they can always put a catch all, 'spirit of the game' type clause. It isn't that hard if people want to thrash out the wording. I started with a blunt idea, no chat when the ball reaches the green. That doesn't work on it's own, for the reasons both of us have given. It's a starting point though, they can work around that. Very much like the caddy not being allowed behind a player taking their putt. Lots of fuss about that initially, no one mentions it now.

Even in the biggest tournaments, we probably don't see 95% of putts players make, and probably 99% of the pre shot routines. And then at the lower level tournaments, there may be no cameras at all.

Do we want to put players in positions that they feel they need to eavesdrop on their opponents / caddies, to see if they are discussing a putt? And, if they do, reporting them?

 

[Slab]

With all of the cameras at tournaments, with other players seeing what is going on, the players / caddies would not be able to fiddle the system. They would soon get used to it and just leave the player to it. That's all, just let the player do their thing.

In terms of your latter point, they can always put a catch all, 'spirit of the game' type clause. It isn't that hard if people want to thrash out the wording. I started with a blunt idea, no chat when the ball reaches the green. That doesn't work on it's own, for the reasons both of us have given. It's a starting point though, they can work around that. Very much like the caddy not being allowed behind a player taking their putt. Lots of fuss about that initially, no one mentions it now.

I’m all for speeding up the Pros pace and I’m not sure a caddy adds much weight to the line any top level tour pro will choose to hit along anyway. So I don’t think it’d harm 99/100 pros if they had to do it all themselves But as a RoG it’ll never translate to the AM game so we’re talking split rules again

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Even in the biggest tournaments, we probably don't see 95% of putts players make, and probably 99% of the pre shot routines. And then at the lower level tournaments, there may be no cameras at all.

Do we want to put players in positions that they feel they need to eavesdrop on their opponents / caddies, to see if they are discussing a putt? And, if they do, reporting them?

What you are saying already happens, players reporting others, cameras picking things up. Otherwise, players would be kicking balls out of the rough, breaking branches to give clearer swings, putting their clubs behind the ball to improve the lie (forget that, they seem to get away with that one ). This would be nothing new in terms of how to enforce.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I’m all for speeding up the Pros pace and I’m not sure a caddy adds much weight to the line any top level tour pro will choose to hit along anyway. So I don’t think it’d harm 99/100 pros if they had to do it all themselves But as a RoG it’ll never translate to the AM game so we’re talking split rules again

Why would it not translate to the AM game? Caddies are not really an issue in the am game but why is it different to the rule about caddies not standing behind the player when they putt? It is not really relevant to the am game but it can still be on the books.

 

[Swango1980]

What you are saying already happens, players reporting others, cameras picking things up. Otherwise, players would be kicking balls out of the rough, breaking branches to give clearer swings, putting their clubs behind the ball to improve the lie (forget that, they seem to get away with that one ). This would be nothing new in terms of how to enforce.

I assume we are being jovial now? I would be very confident players would not be kicking balls out of the rough if no camera's were present and the people they played with had their backs turned? Otherwise, every club golfer must be kicking their ball out of the rough regularly?

I just think it would be an awful idea to ban players and caddies from speaking to each other on the green. Would this ban be extended to the fringe or the fairway if the player decided to take a putt? But, if they were chipping, then the caddy would be allowed to inform them how the ball will break at the hole?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I assume we are being jovial now? I would be very confident players would not be kicking balls out of the rough if no camera's were present and the people they played with had their backs turned? Otherwise, every club golfer must be kicking their ball out of the rough regularly?

I just think it would be an awful idea to ban players and caddies from speaking to each other on the green. Would this ban be extended to the fringe or the fairway if the player decided to take a putt? But, if they were chipping, then the caddy would be allowed to inform them how the ball will break at the hole?

Yes, it was tongue in cheek. The point being though is that golf is self policing and if the rule says don't do that then it relies on golfers following that rule. On the whole, that happens. Policing this would be no more a problem than the ones I quoted, it would just happen.

The other point would be up to the law makers. At what point do you intervene? They would have to decide . Where do they perceive the problem is? The only caddy interaction on the green being to hold the flag can't be that tough to work out.

 

[Slab]

Why would it not translate to the AM game? Caddies are not really an issue in the am game but why is it different to the rule about caddies not standing behind the player when they putt? It is not really relevant to the am game but it can still be on the books.

Your doing your once in a lifetime round at The Old Course, you want to put in a GP card (why wouldn’t you!) you’ve forked out a decent wedge to have caddies who’ve walked the greens in all conditions and seen tens of thousands of putts… and he isn’t allowed to improve your experience (& maybe your score) by telling you 'it’s a ball to the right'

IMO caddies have far more influence on the players score for shots off the green than they do on the green, so putting is the thin end of the wedge.
So while no one liked to see caddies lining the player up before stepping away, they didn't just ban that on the green it was stopped for all shots and I think you'd need to do similar for verbal advice on lines otherwise the caddy is still having a material influence on the round score with respect to line of play, so why just prohibit it on greens where it has the least impact

 

[Orikoru]

I don't mind the caddie giving advice to the player and them trying to read the green together - but him standing there between the player and the line of the putt like that should come under the alignment help that is already banned in my opinion.

 

[Imurg]

The obvious answer is staring everyone in the face...
At Tour level simply ban Caddys...
Issue all players with a Go-kart and a Skycaddie and let 'em get on with it......
Problem solved.

 

[Orikoru]

The obvious answer is staring everyone in the face...
At Tour level simply ban Caddys...
Issue all players with a Go-kart and a Skycaddie and let 'em get on with it......
Problem solved.

I'd be in favour of that if I hadn't recently watched the series 1 Joel Dahman episode of Full Swing.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes, it was tongue in cheek. The point being though is that golf is self policing and if the rule says don't do that then it relies on golfers following that rule. On the whole, that happens. Policing this would be no more a problem than the ones I quoted, it would just happen.

The other point would be up to the law makers. At what point do you intervene? They would have to decide . Where do they perceive the problem is? The only caddy interaction on the green being to hold the flag can't be that tough to work out.

I guess we could also put in a rule to stop players wearing a black glove. Not much point to the rule, but can be policed

 

[Swango1980]

The obvious answer is staring everyone in the face...
At Tour level simply ban Caddys...
Issue all players with a Go-kart and a Skycaddie and let 'em get on with it......
Problem solved.

That would make no difference to McIlroy, as all his caddy does is carry his clubs. And, ultimately improve him relative to the other players around him, who now have to think by themselves.

 

[jim8flog]

His caddie is definitely touching the ground and he’s giving him the line as well. Totally unacceptable

Can I recommend specsavers

 

[D-S]

Just enforce the 40 second stroke time suggestion. I would go for the Countdown clock music (extended from 30 to 40 seconds) starting the moment the playing partner strikes their ball. You and your caddy can do anything in that time but you don’t get any longer. Dependent on the ‘vibe’ of the tournament, the crowd can maybe join in on the last few bars.

 

[Backsticks]

The caddy's core job is original raison d'etre, was to carry around his player's clubs. This type of labour intensive human porter was fine when he was cheaper than a contraption. But is an anachronism. We have the wheel now, and mass production of cheap trolleys. Just do away with caddies. They idea that they are a team just causes this sort of nonsense.

 

[ADB]

I’m not offering solutions or suggestions, but any golfer knows that green reading is the skill that separates - especially at the elite level….Tiger being the exemplar. The reliance Wyndham has on his caddie on the greens is embarrassing frankly.

 

[rulie]

Maybe some of this discussion should be in "Golf Irritations"?

 

[Steven Rules]

The reliance Wyndham has on his caddie on the greens is embarrassing frankly.

Why does it make you embarrassed?

 

[rulefan]

I’m not offering solutions or suggestions, but any golfer knows that green reading is the skill that separates - especially at the elite level….Tiger being the exemplar. The reliance Wyndham has on his caddie on the greens is embarrassing frankly.

Isn't that what caddies are paid for now?

What Is A Caddie In Golf?

Here we consider the golfing term caddie or caddy. Where does it come from and what does a caddy do in golf?

www.golfmonthly.com

 

[Swango1980]

I think people wouldn't just stop at banning caddies. They'd ban any sort of distance measuring devices, or even yardage markers on the course. Players must play everything by eye only. They'd ban all modern golf clubs and balls, and go back to wooden golf clubs. None of this well fitting golf attire, but players should wear poorly fitting suits, the way golf was meant to be played. No raking of bunkers.

Personally, I don't ever see the rules changing so that caddies are banned from discussing tactics and opinions with the player that pays them. The player still needs to have the ability to execute the shot.