Would you miss your.......

[bobmac]

Club manager? (if you have one)

They go home at 5 o'clock Mon-Fri, every weekend off, and £25k+, plus percentages.

If your club has to make a saving, who would you rather lose?

 

[john0]

Bob mate, you just need to let this one go.... move on

 

[stevek1969]

The manager who is an ignorant little knob who earns 30k a year for doing heehaw he's never there after 2 in the summer and always on a golf course in St Andrews or where ever he's getting for nowt.
The club he left to join us held a party when he left as a celebration of getting rid of him.

 

[3offTheTee]

CaN I vote for both and save 50k?

 

[richart]

The manager who is an ignorant little knob who earns 30k a year for doing heehaw he's never there after 2 in the summer and always on a golf course in St Andrews or where ever he's getting for nowt.
The club he left to join us held a party when he left as a celebration of getting rid of him.

I take it that is a vote to get rid of your manager Steve.

 

[Swinger]

Tough one that Bob.

For me they both have a lot of merits and I guess the pro would be the one who would be harder to cover with members help due to club repairs and professional advice. Having said that though a good General Manager or Secretary can really make a golf club and move it forward which is something a group of members helping out could never do.

 

[percy_layer]

Might be worth mentioning in this thread that a PGA pro has the education and training to manage a golf club. A lot of PGA pros have become club managers and Directors of Golf.

 

[feary]

I work for the pro, yet the manager does a lot for the course. Yet so does the pro at our place. So if i picked the pro i'd be out of some money, so i went for manager.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We don't have a club manager per se but most of our big decisions are made at director level (we have a board of directors who are also members) and lesser ones and the running of the club is done by the comp committee, house committee etc which I think is fairly standard in a lot of clubs.

 

[GB72]

I like the idea of a general manager. I feel that my club needs to modernise its thinking in a lot of areas but any change needs someone to push it through. A manager can do that. The current committee system is not the way forward. Committees tend to favour the status quo as the variety of opinions bring concensus decisions. Furthermore, the committee tends to be made up of long standing members who have stayed members because they like things the way they are. Having such a committee as an arbiter of change is just not going to work. As for expecting change from the pro, he is not likely to stand against his employers. Our pro has been with the club for 25 years as well so likely to be happy with the status quo.

I may be deluded in my opinion but if a club does not want to stagnate then a good, forward thinking manager, would be good way forward.

 

[Junior]

Both our pro and the club manager do a really great job. I'm happy to say that our club is moving forward with regard to developing the course, membership and the facilities.

I think that the club manager position is a difficult one. If you have few members (maybe retired members?) who are willing to put the time in to provide all the admin duties that are needed to be done to get the club by (for example, facilitating repairs to grounds, admin for membership etc) then that's fair enough. However, clubs in our area these days need more than that given the competition between clubs for different types of membership. There is a lot more marketing work required now as well as the making sure all the club policies are upto date with legislative requirements (eg. the recent equality laws, health and safety etc).

So in summary, i guess yes, we would miss him, but you still cant function without the few other committee members who do a lot of work for the club foc !!!

 

[coolhand]

I these times neither role is justified in isolation apart from at the biggest club. As the Manager can't teach/sell/fix the way forward is a Pro who also does the day to day management of the Club with the decisions made/ratified by a board of members. Get the green keeper to also cover the steward role and ideally his wife to do the catering on a profit sharing basis (the way most sports grounds used to operate. And Bob's (not that one) your Uncle.

 

[bobmac]

The Addington golf centre are advertising for a Food and Beverage manager. Salary...£18,000-£20,000.

Brighton Golf Club are looking for a head chef...£25,000

Chigwell are advertising for a head professional...£12,500

A club very near me offered their professional of 13 years a new contract for a 40 hour week (actually nearer 60 hours) for £15,000 pa. He left.

 

[percy_layer]

The Addington golf centre are advertising for a Food and Beverage manager. Salary...£18,000-£20,000.

Brighton Golf Club are looking for a head chef...£25,000

Chigwell are advertising for a head professional...£12,500

A club very near me offered their professional of 13 years a new contract for a 40 hour week (actually nearer 60 hours) for £15,000 pa. He left.

Would rather work in another profession and get my amateur status back. Make more money and play more golf..........

 

[stevek1969]

The manager who is an ignorant little knob who earns 30k a year for doing heehaw he's never there after 2 in the summer and always on a golf course in St Andrews or where ever he's getting for nowt.
The club he left to join us held a party when he left as a celebration of getting rid of him.

I take it that is a vote to get rid of your manager Steve.

Correct mate . i've never met anyone who has a good word to say about him he's just a total knob

 

[clubchamp07]

I can't vote as I think both (if good) will make the club money. I take the point of saving money but at the end of the day if you have a good manager he/she should be able to pay for themselves.
I think every good golf club needs a good pro, visitors like to talk to different pro's when visiting different club's. I'm sure there are other ways to save/make money.
I hate it when I go to another club to find they dont have a pro or shop. I just feel there is something missing!

 

[Dodger]

Bob,surely you knew the terms and conditions of your profession before you took the plunge....either that or you didn't do your homework very well.

I had the chance 20 years ago and opted out,you don't make good money from having a degree in confectionery sales,the only way I saw making any coin from it was moving abroad to teach but these jobs are few and far between.At the same time a friend of mine (who was a great player) went and is currently settled and doing fantastic for himself.

 

[coolhand]

Bob/Charlie,

Did mean to cause any offence but I think that the small and medium clubs will have to face reality over the next few years:

Clubs need 4 key roles filled (in no particular order):

1. Greenkeeper – most have previously agreed that the state of the course is top priority
2. Manager – promote the club, manage society bookings, make sure the club house is looked after.
3. Steward/Head Barman/Food & Beverage manager – most like to have a bacon sandwich & coffee before the round and a beer after.
4. Pro – manage tee times, run the shop, provide lessons, interact with members

I don’t feel filling all of these roles individually is economically viable anymore unless the club is big, therefore the choice is pay them all as little as possible, do without one or more of them, combine the roles into bigger ones that are better rewarded (albeit at a rate less than the total of the combined roles). Personally as if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and to survive clubs have to be better than their neighbours so need all the roles covered, the last option would seem the best one.

So Chigwell should be looking for a “Managing Professional” @ £35,000 and make the General Manager redundant.

 

[bobmac]

Bob,surely you knew the terms and conditions of your profession before you took the plunge

I didn't do it for the money.
I just love teaching.
It's the guys with young families I feel sorry for.
Long hours for little money.
I was just trying to spoil a good story with a few facts.

 

[percy_layer]

Bob/Charlie,

Did mean to cause any offence but I think that the small and medium clubs will have to face reality over the next few years:

Clubs need 4 key roles filled (in no particular order):

1. Greenkeeper – most have previously agreed that the state of the course is top priority
2. Manager – promote the club, manage society bookings, make sure the club house is looked after.
3. Steward/Head Barman/Food & Beverage manager – most like to have a bacon sandwich & coffee before the round and a beer after.
4. Pro – manage tee times, run the shop, provide lessons, interact with members

I don’t feel filling all of these roles individually is economically viable anymore unless the club is big, therefore the choice is pay them all as little as possible, do without one or more of them, combine the roles into bigger ones that are better rewarded (albeit at a rate less than the total of the combined roles). Personally as if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and to survive clubs have to be better than their neighbours so need all the roles covered, the last option would seem the best one.

So Chigwell should be looking for a “Managing Professional” @ £35,000 and make the General Manager redundant.

I totally agree, i believe that clubs that dispense with the services of their pro are losing a fantastic asset that could drive the business that is beneficial to everyone.

It'll not affect my work as i'm a golf coach.