World Handicap System

[Colin L]

The low score anchor......

I've got goals to get to +4 within the next few years and I'm interested in this. I know it depends on the course rating and slope index but if I shoot -9 on a standard course would that mean my low score anchor would be +5 from that score? And would it overrule my general play scores?

I ask as I'm a really steady golfer and probably shoot within my handicap 80% of the time but don't tend to go super low due the way I play the game. However if a one off great round counts so heavily then I would seriously consider changing my game.

Thanks to jim8flog, I've been saved a lot of writing.

Like him, I don't understand why you would be gutted. If your ambition is to bring your Handicap Index down, returning a Score Differential of -9, improbable as that would seem, would obviously move it in the right direction. Something to be pleased about, don't you think?

PS I say improbable because, for example to achieve a score differential of -9 on the white course at my club you would have to return a gross score of 60 which would earn you the course record by 2 strokes. Perhaps incremental steps to achievement would be more sensible ?

 

[Swango1980]

I was trying to equate Nett par as adjusted by SSS post round as opposed to pre round Handicap index being adjusted by Slope.

No offence taken by me

I'm still confused by your thinking. To clarify, once we move over to WHS, are you saying that your belief is that, because the Course Handicap will depend on the course you are playing, then if you score nett par (or 36 points in Stableford), you have played to handicap? If that is your logic, then it is incorrect. Shooting 36 points will not automatically mean a player has played to handicap, it will depend on the Course Rating of the Course (just like our current system it depends on the SSS/CSS of the course, not Par)

 

[DickInShorts]

I’m getting confused myself now!

At the moment par for handicap players is adjusted by CSS AFTER the round by adjusting the nett strokes taken by the difference between par and CSS.
So for me at Inverurie par is 69 but the SSS is 68 so I need to shoot nett two under par to get a cut and one over par (I’m cat2) to be in buffer. My handicap of 12 means I need to effectively play off 11.
At Moray par is 71 but SSS is 73 so I can shoot nett par and get a 0.6 cut - and nett 75 gets me in buffer
So my effective handicap is 14

My only point was that to explain it the changes SIMPLY - under WHS my playing handicap will be adjusted BEFORE I play rather than after.

Hopefully that makes some sort of sense - in a very simplistic way

 

[Swango1980]

I’m getting confused myself now!

At the moment par for handicap players is adjusted by CSS AFTER the round by adjusting the nett strokes taken by the difference between par and CSS.
So for me at Inverurie par is 69 but the SSS is 68 so I need to shoot nett two under par to get a cut and one over par (I’m cat2) to be in buffer. My handicap of 12 means I need to effectively play off 11.
At Moray par is 71 but SSS is 73 so I can shoot nett par and get a 0.6 cut - and nett 75 gets me in buffer
So my effective handicap is 14

My only point was that to explain it the changes SIMPLY - under WHS my playing handicap will be adjusted BEFORE I play rather than after.

Hopefully that makes some sort of sense - in a very simplistic way

This is where your thinking is mistaken I believe. To think of it very simplistically, take a scratch golfer. Now, take 2 courses, par 72, but Course A has SSS/CR of 70, Course B has SSS/CR of 74.

For Course A, under current system and using your thinking, you could say the scratch golfer needs to play off -2 (or +2 using the normal definition). At course B they'd need to play off 2. That is a reasonable way to look at it.

HOWEVER, under WHS, the scratch golfer will still have a COURSE handicap of 0 on both courses, despite the difference in CR. In other words, WHS will not make that adjustment for them so that they can simply compare their score to PAR. So, you still need to compare their score to CR, in the same way you compare scores to SSS/CSS now.

The change in course handicap is only to account for relative difficulty between good and not so good players. It is nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the course. This is why higher handicappers will see the biggest changes to their Course Handicap when they go from one course to another, whilst scratch golfers will see zero change. If you were an amazing golfer, and played of say +5, you could be playing of +6 (i.e. losing another shot) at the highest slope courses whilst the highest handicappers gain shots, and +4 at the lowest slope courses (gaining a shot) where the highest handicappers lose shots.

 

[DickInShorts]

That’s pretty much what I was trying to get across

 

[Colin L]

I’m getting confused myself now!
At the moment par for handicap players is adjusted by CSS AFTER the round by adjusting the nett strokes taken by the difference between par and CSS.
So for me at Inverurie par is 69 but the SSS is 68 so I need to shoot nett two under par to get a cut and one over par (I’m cat2) to be in buffer. My handicap of 12 means I need to effectively play off 11.
At Moray par is 71 but SSS is 73 so I can shoot nett par and get a 0.6 cut - and nett 75 gets me in buffer
So my effective handicap is 14
My only point was that to explain it the changes SIMPLY - under WHS my playing handicap will be adjusted BEFORE I play rather than after.
Hopefully that makes some sort of sense - in a very simplistic way

I'm sorry to say I nearly didn't get past your first sentence. It seems terribly confused. Par is fixed, the same for everyone of the same gender from the plus 4 to the 54 handicapper. It isn't adjusted by the CSS or anything else. Of course I get it that you can say that you need to shoot two under nett par to get a cut or one over nett par to be in your buffer but all you are really saying is you need to shoot a nett 67 for a cut and a nett 69 to buffer. It's actually more direct and as a result simpler to think in terms of gross score: you need to go round your course in 80 strokes to play to handicap. I need to you round in 86 on our yellow course and 88 on our white course, to play to my handicap of 18. That has everything to do with the SSS and nothing to do with par. Par is not totally arbitrary but it is hugely variable: we could change the par of our two courses by up to 4 strokes within the CONGU parameters. If we did so, it wouldn't change the number of strokes I need to go round in to play to handicap. Strip out all the references to the pars of the courses you mention and just leave the info about their SSS. and we would know what you need to score to play to handicap. Strip out all the references to the SSS of the courses you mention and just leave the info about their pars. and we would have no idea.

Each to his own way of seeing things but bringing par into handicapping is misleading.

 

[rulefan]

And is why course rating was developed and tuned over time with inter alia the introduction of slope.

 

[4LEX]

I am not sure I am totally following what you say.

Handicap Indexes are not set by a single round they are an average which is dependent on the number of Qualifying Scores in your handicap record, it is only the average of the best 8 if you have 20 scores in it.

If what you mean is memory of a low index. This is something that is on a 365 day rolling basis. It means that your Handicap Index cannot increase by more than 5 shots over the lowest Handicap Index in that period. There is no cap to how low it can go.

General Play scores will only be in in your Handicap Record if they were registered as Supplementary Scores but by the sound of it you are a 5 or better handicap player so they could not have been. This changes with the WHS as there will no longer be categories of handicaps and all players can submit Supplementary Scores when it starts.

Thanks for the reply Jim, appreciate it.

I've got totally confused with the low handicap anchor and mixed it up with a low score anchor which doesn't even exist! I made the mistake of listening to the Rick Shiels podcast on the subject. That'll learn me

The new system will benefit me anyway with best 8 scores on a rolling 20. I just thought I'd spotted a quirky way to have some fun with it. I play off a low cat 1 handicap but haven't been a member of a club for 4 years, so have no comp scores or recent supplements. I've not played much golf during that time due to an injury but have started playing a lot this year and my game is on another level to previously. With my personal circumstances, I'll be dedicating the next two years to my golf and playing 5-6 days a week. I want to see how much I can win and low I can get my handicap

 

[Colin L]

You will need to join a club and return a total of 54 holes of scores in 18 hole rounds, 9 hole rounds or a mixture of the two in order to get your WHS Handicap Index. Your gross score will be adjusted to a maximum of 5 over par at any hole. The best of three 18 hole rounds (9 hole rounds are combined) will be used . If you know the course and slope ratings of the course you played on you can work out what your Handicap Index is likely to be:
((Adjusted gross score - Course Rating) x 113 ÷ slope rating) - 2

The Handicap Committee should take account of your previous history., especially your play over the time since recovery from your injury and might modify the HI arrived at by the calculation.

You won't have a Low Handicap Index until you have 20 scores in your scoring record.

 

[4LEX]

You will need to join a club and return a total of 54 holes of scores in 18 hole rounds, 9 hole rounds or a mixture of the two in order to get your WHS Handicap Index. Your gross score will be adjusted to a maximum of double par at any hole. The best of three 18 hole rounds (9 hole rounds are combined) will be used . If you know the course and slope ratings of the course you played on you can work out what your Handicap Index is likely to be:
((Adjusted gross score - Course Rating) x 113 ÷ slope rating) - 2

The Handicap Committee should take account of your previous history., especially your play over the time since recovery from your injury and might modify the HI arrived at by the calculation.

You won't have a Low Handicap Index until you have 20 scores in your scoring record.

Cheers Colin, appreciate the response.

I'm fortunate in my job I get to play a lot of Top 100 courses, which are generally much tougher than your average track. I've been averaging around scratch over the last few months but will pick my home club carefully. My year one target is scratch and Club Championship as a minimum. Roll on next year!

 

[jim8flog]

Your gross score will be adjusted to a maximum of double par at any hole.

When the WHS comes in it will be par plus 5 shots

 

[Colin L]

When the WHS comes in it will be par plus 5 shots

Oops. I've let the "old ways" slip through. Thanks for noticing!

I've edited the error.

 

[IanM]

Our club has just sent an email to all saying approx... "WHS is starting next month, all info will be on Wales Golf website. Please go there and don't badger this office with questions!"

We tend to suspend qualifying comps from end Oct till Start of March/April......so I see some breathing space there and a significant part of the membership are banned from travel to the course due to local lockdown

Otherwise, it will be messy!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A bit of consternation at our place - and confusion - over the club seemingly deciding (or on verge of doing so) that our Sat am roll-up will be a WHS qualifier. Why? Apparently it is as we play an organised competition each week (fun - stableford but with gimmes) and it has tee times reserved for it in our club system (all play has to be booked so we have no choice).

I recall reading here that...(I paraphrase) 'the committee' may decide that an organised competition may be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

The important word I have highlighted because the use of the word may implies that committee need not decide so. Have there been any changes tio what constitutes a Q-comp for WHS and what need not?

And I recall also reading that the fact that we (have to) use our club system is irrelevant - that that by itself does not make our roll-up comp a WHS Q-comp.

 

[rulefan]

A bit of consternation at our place - and confusion - over the club seemingly deciding (or on verge of doing so) that our Sat am roll-up will be a WHS qualifier. Why? Apparently it is as we play an organised competition each week (fun - stableford but with gimmes) and it has tee times reserved for it in our club system (all play has to be booked so we have no choice).

I recall reading here that...(I paraphrase) 'the committee' may decide that an organised competition may be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

The important word I have highlighted because the use of the word may implies that committee need not decide so. Have there been any changes tio what constitutes a Q-comp for WHS and what need not?

And I recall also reading that the fact that we (have to) use our club system is irrelevant - that that by itself does not make our roll-up comp a WHS Q-comp.

The clincher would seem to be that it is not played according to the Rules of Golf. See 1.3 bullet 5, 2.1b and 2.1b/2

 

[Swango1980]

A bit of consternation at our place - and confusion - over the club seemingly deciding (or on verge of doing so) that our Sat am roll-up will be a WHS qualifier. Why? Apparently it is as we play an organised competition each week (fun - stableford but with gimmes) and it has tee times reserved for it in our club system (all play has to be booked so we have no choice).

I recall reading here that...(I paraphrase) 'the committee' may decide that an organised competition may be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

The important word I have highlighted because the use of the word may implies that committee need not decide so. Have there been any changes tio what constitutes a Q-comp for WHS and what need not?

And I recall also reading that the fact that we (have to) use our club system is irrelevant - that that by itself does not make our roll-up comp a WHS Q-comp.

I'd agree with rulefans comment. If you play gimmes, how can it be an acceptable round? Will Committee force players to putt out, or will players refuse to do so? Many organised societies play certain conditions not strictly allowed under rules of golf, so I can't see why a Committee should dictate to players how they should play in basically a fun knock around amongst mates

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The clincher would seem to be that it is not played according to the Rules of Golf. See 1.3 bullet 5, 2.1b and 2.1b/2

We are being told that as our rollup will be a qualifier we MUST hole out. Gimmes Gone.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd agree with rulefans comment. If you play gimmes, how can it be an acceptable round? Will Committee force players to putt out, or will players refuse to do so? Many organised societies play certain conditions not strictly allowed under rules of golf, so I can't see why a Committee should dictate to players how they should play in basically a fun knock around amongst mates

Yes - we understand that we will be forced to hole out - because our rollup comp MUST be considered a q-comp.

I am sure that there was a clarification made and provided here that meant a committee could choose to NOT designate a Comp as a qualifier. I believe we are being told ‘tough guys - WHS mandates that as your rollup comp is an organised comp it is therefore by definition a q-comp and there is nothing that we, the club, can do about that. Sorry guys’

is that’s true or is has the club misunderstood the guidelines?

i add - there is one almighty stooshie brewing and it would really good if I could provide factual clarification one way or the other to defuse the situation.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes - we understand that we will be forced to hole out - because our rollup comp MUST be considered a q-comp.

I am sure that there was a clarification made and provided here that meant a committee could choose to NOT designate a Comp as a qualifier. I believe we are being told ‘tough guys - WHS mandates that as your rollup comp is an organised comp it is therefore by definition a q-comp and there is nothing that we, the club, can do about that. Sorry guys’

is that’s true or is has the club misunderstood the guidelines?

i add - there is one almighty stooshie brewing and it would really good if I could provide factual clarification one way or the other to defuse the situation.

I understand the WHS guidelines make a strong point any organised comps are played as Acceptable Rounds. Probably to.encourage clubs not to organise comps on their system and set them as non qualifying.

However, it is a step too far to put demands on golfers who are playing regular knock and have their own routines like gimmes that dont follow rules. What if players refused to sign up? It is crazy in my opinion. Fair enough, club could ask them and maybe encourage them to.give it a go. But, if no appetite for it, forget it.

We have seniors go out monday and friday mornings in their own regular get togethers. There is a society goes out every Sunday morning. To be fair, none go through computer anyway. But, at no point as handicap secretary, will I ever demand them to enter them as Acceptable rounds. If they approached me and asked if they could do so, then I'd certainly see if I can sort it for them. If they want to continue doing what they do, have their own informal.handicap system and have gimmes they are welcome.

I doubt WHS would enforce this on golfers, I think it is an overly literal interpretation by your club.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd agree with rulefans comment. If you play gimmes, how can it be an acceptable round? Will Committee force players to putt out, or will players refuse to do so? Many organised societies play certain conditions not strictly allowed under rules of golf, so I can't see why a Committee should dictate to players how they should play in basically a fun knock around amongst mates

This is exactly at the very core of the issue.