World Handicap System

[clubchamp98]

Where are these easy courses, our lowest medal has been 69 highest points 42.

That might be nearer the truth than you think.
My course was one of the hardest you could play a few years ago.
But now they just cut all the rough down ( pace of play)
The scores are just silly now .
You can hit a 3 wood out of rough that you would struggle to find your ball in a few years ago.
Being straight and hitting fairways isn’t necessary any more.

 

[wjemather]

That might be nearer the truth than you think.
My course was one of the hardest you could play a few years ago.
But now they just cut all the rough down ( pace of play)
The scores are just silly now .
You can hit a 3 wood out of rough that you would struggle to find your ball in a few years ago.
Being straight and hitting fairways isn’t necessary any more.

Sounds a bit like most weeks on the PGA Tour (except for improving pace of play, obviously).

 

[clubchamp98]

Sounds a bit like most weeks on the PGA Tour (except for improving pace of play, obviously).

Yes and it hasn’t worked at ours either.

 

[badgergm]

Not a good start to the year, so I am in soft cap territory. But struggling to see how calculation done.

My low index is 2.5. I have new calculated index of 6.2. According to my understanding that should give a new index of 5.85, which would be rounded up to 5.9. However my new index is shown as 5.8.

If I remove the rounding to 1DP of my new index then it is 6.175. So using that in soft cap calculation would give 5.8.

So is that how it works? Or is the 5.85 rounded down to 5.8 rather than up to 5.9?

 

[rulefan]

Not a good start to the year, so I am in soft cap territory. But struggling to see how calculation done.

My low index is 2.5. I have new calculated index of 6.2. According to my understanding that should give a new index of 5.85, which would be rounded up to 5.9. However my new index is shown as 5.8.

If I remove the rounding to 1DP of my new index then it is 6.175. So using that in soft cap calculation would give 5.8.

So is that how it works? Or is the 5.85 rounded down to 5.8 rather than up to 5.9?

All rounding is done conventionally. (ie x.x5 is up)

 

[badgergm]

All rounding is done conventionally. (ie x.x5 is up)

So why is my new index 5.8 and not 5.9? Because the Index isn't rounded to 1DP before applying soft cap calculation (i.e. use 6.175 and not 6.2)? That is only way I can see it being 5.8 and not 5.9.

All the examples I can find use nice easy round numbers and avoid any rounding issues or edge cases. Can't find an answer in the manual.

 

[Swango1980]

When entering a penalty score for a no return, WHS guidance recommends a score equal the player playing to their Index (CR+Course Handicap), unless it is felt the player was trying to manipulate handicap upwards or downwards. I assume this guidance is to ensure a neutral score entry is put on their record. However, when doing this, the players Index will always decrease once the penalty score is entered. So, it is a recommendation I'm uncomfortable following. Most of the time a player NRs, it is not necessarily because they are trying to keep a low handicap, but more likely they just had a bad day and less incentive to submit score. So, having a penalty score that reduces their handicap seems odd.

 

[Old Skier]

When entering a penalty score for a no return, WHS guidance recommends a score equal the player playing to their Index (CR+Course Handicap), unless it is felt the player was trying to manipulate handicap upwards or downwards. I assume this guidance is to ensure a neutral score entry is put on their record. However, when doing this, the players Index will always decrease once the penalty score is entered. So, it is a recommendation I'm uncomfortable following. Most of the time a player NRs, it is not necessarily because they are trying to keep a low handicap, but more likely they just had a bad day and less incentive to submit score. So, having a penalty score that reduces their handicap seems odd.

Perhaps it’s considered a method to try and encourage people to not NR?

 

[wjemather]

When entering a penalty score for a no return, WHS guidance recommends a score equal the player playing to their Index (CR+Course Handicap), unless it is felt the player was trying to manipulate handicap upwards or downwards. I assume this guidance is to ensure a neutral score entry is put on their record. However, when doing this, the players Index will always decrease once the penalty score is entered. So, it is a recommendation I'm uncomfortable following. Most of the time a player NRs, it is not necessarily because they are trying to keep a low handicap, but more likely they just had a bad day and less incentive to submit score. So, having a penalty score that reduces their handicap seems odd.

There still seems to be some confusion with NR (individual hole score) and the old NR (round score, all zeros). Under WHS, the latter does not exist as an acceptable score since all scores must be submitted regardless of whether all holes have been completed/attempted; hole scores after an NR should be recorded as normal (essentially all rounds are recorded for handicapping as if playing Stableford using Course Handicaps).

Penalty scores pretty much only deal with situations where no score is returned at all, and it has not been possible to establish one. It cannot be presumed that such rounds are bad. For example, we had a group that failed to return in a comp after walking off after 14 due to bad weather. Having finally established the scores a few days later, one of them was several strokes under handicap when they abandoned.

 

[jim8flog]

Not a good start to the year, so I am in soft cap territory. But struggling to see how calculation done.

My low index is 2.5. I have new calculated index of 6.2. According to my understanding that should give a new index of 5.85, which would be rounded up to 5.9. However my new index is shown as 5.8.

If I remove the rounding to 1DP of my new index then it is 6.175. So using that in soft cap calculation would give 5.8.

So is that how it works? Or is the 5.85 rounded down to 5.8 rather than up to 5.9?

I put up a separate post about this yesterday in the ask the experts.


After a lot of thinking about it I worked out that it goes in stages (I believe)

So your soft cap actually kicks in at 5.5. If you have a score which is going to take your score over 5.5 it first uses the decimal points (tenths) up to 5.5 if there any decimal point left these are then halved.

So say you were 5.4 and it should go to 6.1 as the best of 8, 0.1 takes you to 5.5 the remaining 0.6 is halved to 0.3 giving a H.I. of 5.8

 

[badgergm]

I put up a separate post about this yesterday in the ask the experts.


After a lot of thinking about it I worked out that it goes in stages (I believe)

So your soft cap actually kicks in at 5.5. If you have a score which is going to take your score over 5.5 it first uses the decimal points (tenths) up to 5.5 if there any decimal point left these are then halved.

So say you were 5.4 and it should go to 6.1 as the best of 8, 0.1 takes you to 5.5 the remaining 0.6 is halved to 0.3 giving a H.I. of 5.8

Hmm, but what happens after that? I had already hit soft cap in previous round, this was another increase. Implication is that you need to understand each increase in turn, i.e. understand the history? You can't just statically calculate index of best 8 from 20 and then apply soft cap? I'll need to play about with that.........

 

[wjemather]

Hmm, but what happens after that? I had already hit soft cap in previous round, this was another increase. Implication is that you need to understand each increase in turn, i.e. understand the history? You can't just statically calculate index of best 8 from 20 and then apply soft cap? I'll need to play about with that.........

The Handicap Index calculation is a new independent calculation each day a new round has been entered, as is the Low Index; i.e. previous calculations as irrelevant as increases are not incremental. If the new HI would be more than 3 above the low index, the difference above 3 is halved. As far as I know, rounding is not done until the calculation is complete. For example:

• Low Index = 2.5
• Soft Cap = 5.5
• New Handicap Index = 6.175 = 5.5 + (6.175 - 5.5)/2 = 5.5 + 0.3375 = 5.8375 = 5.8

 

[badgergm]

The Handicap Index calculation is a new independent calculation each day a new round has been entered, as is the Low Index; i.e. previous calculations as irrelevant as increases are not incremental. If the new HI would be more than 3 above the low index, the difference above 3 is halved. As far as I know, rounding is not done until the calculation is complete. For example:

• Low Index = 2.5
• Soft Cap = 5.5
• New Handicap Index = 6.175 = 5.5 + (6.175 - 5.5)/2 = 5.5 + 0.3375 = 5.8375 = 5.8

Yes, that must be it. That isn't what the rule says though. 5.2b says:

"A Handicap Index is calculated from the lowest Score Differentials in the scoring record. If a scoring record contains at least 20 Score Differentials, the procedure for calculating a Handicap Index is :

• Average the lowest 8 of the most recent 20 Score Differentials (which include any adjustments for exceptional scores and/or a Committee review) and round to the nearest tenth.
• Compute the difference between the average of the lowest 8 score differentials and the Low Handicap Index.
• If the difference is greater than 3, the soft cap calculation is applied."

which to me implies that you use 6.2 in my case and not 6.175.

 

[wjemather]

Yes, that must be it. That isn't what the rule says though. 5.2b says:

"A Handicap Index is calculated from the lowest Score Differentials in the scoring record. If a scoring record contains at least 20 Score Differentials, the procedure for calculating a Handicap Index is :

• Average the lowest 8 of the most recent 20 Score Differentials (which include any adjustments for exceptional scores and/or a Committee review) and round to the nearest tenth.
• Compute the difference between the average of the lowest 8 score differentials and the Low Handicap Index.
• If the difference is greater than 3, the soft cap calculation is applied."

which to me implies that you use 6.2 in my case and not 6.175.

There is a fair bit of ambiguity throughout the rules (whether by accident or design, who knows). In this case, the "soft cap calculation" is never explicitly defined so it's unclear what methodology is used.

 

[3offTheTee]

Playing our only 36 hole medal over Sat. And Sunday. Have a knee injury and make not make 18.

Questions:

1. If I play 10 holes my score will count. Is that correct?
2. Do I have the same HI for both days? I thought I did.
3. If I have to ‘retire’ after 10 holes tomorrow can I still win The Comp?
4. If I cannot score do I add N/S for handicap purposes? Obviously if I did I could not win the Comp.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Playing our only 36 hole medal over Sat. And Sunday. Have a knee injury and make not make 18.

Questions:

1. If I play 10 holes my score will count. Is that correct? Yes
2. Do I have the same HI for both days? I thought I did. Yes
3. If I have to ‘retire’ after 10 holes tomorrow can I still win The Comp? N0 - you will be disqualified
4. If I cannot score do I add N/S for handicap purposes? Obviously if I did I could not win the Comp If you are referring to a specific hole normally if you haven't completed it you will be given a NDB for handicap purposes. You should try to complete the rest of the holes unless injury prevents you doing so. In a medal if you don't complete a hole you are disqualified anyway. If you are referring to the round then you should submit scores for all holes completed and not stop if you fail to complete a single hole - unless you are unable to continue.

 

[badgergm]

There is a fair bit of ambiguity throughout the rules (whether by accident or design, who knows). In this case, the "soft cap calculation" is never explicitly defined so it's unclear what methodology is used.

tbh I don’t really see the ambiguity. Fairly clear statement that you round to 1 DP before you consider soft cap. Disappointing that it isn’t clear.

 

[rulie]

tbh I don’t really see the ambiguity. Fairly clear statement that you round to 1 DP before you consider soft cap. Disappointing that it isn’t clear.

Maybe the computer system doesn't round during the process? Maybe the difference between 5.8 and 5.9 isn't significant in the grand scheme of things?

 

[badgergm]

Maybe the computer system doesn't round during the process? Maybe the difference between 5.8 and 5.9 isn't significant in the grand scheme of things?

Maybe. But should it or shouldn’t it? It doesn’t seem too much to ask to have a complete and correct description of how the handicap index is calculacted. And of course the difference is significant- will make a difference of a shot in course handicap on some courses.

 

[Colin L]

There is a fair bit of ambiguity throughout the rules (whether by accident or design, who knows). In this case, the "soft cap calculation" is never explicitly defined so it's unclear what methodology is used.

1. The soft cap. The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.
   When a calculated Handicap Index increase is greater than 3.0 strokes, the value above 3.0 strokes is restricted to 50% of the increase.

Is that not explicit enough?