World Handicap System

IanMcC

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Also, one differential is not going to affect your handicap at all when there are 19 other scores to select your best eight from.

I know this is how it is sold but its not strictly correct, I feel. All differentials affect your handicap index, as all entries knock off the 20th most recent score and replace it with the most recent. I went up 0.5 recently replacing my best round with a poor one.
 

wjemather

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Mathematically incorrect. It could "at some point" be part of your 8.
At no point is one "great big Differential" going to be one of your best eight. If it ends up counting, it's because your other rounds are equally bad and worse. Either way it's not adversely affecting your handicap.
 

Imurg

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Trying to do something different doesn't equate to producing a different result for many golfers, and even when it does the good/bad tend to even themselves out. Also, using MLS the putt raced 4 feet past would be counted as one additional stroke for handicapping (i.e. effectively a gimme) making no difference from the lagged two-putt.
Because nobody ever misses a 4 footer........
 

Swango1980

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How can that be right? Surely you have played a better ball comp where you try to "do something different" because of the shot your partner has just played???

Course management has nothing to go with it. Eg You have a birdie putt, your partner just holed for par. "You ain't lagging it!" BUT if you have to count your score, no way you are belting it 4 feet past.

That's novice stuff... if you play the game...
My partner sticks their second shot stiff, and they have a tap in birdie with a shot. Meanwhile, I chip my second out of a bush and still have 150 yards to green. After my 3rd I am 20 yards from the green, in the bunker. I'd really love to just pick up now, let my partner finish out, and we can move on. However, do I really need to keep playing until I've had at least 6 shots (assume I get a shot as well)?

Yeah, can't I'd be a fan of having rounds count for handicap in that format.

I'd be curious to see if many people would actually have different handicaps depending on the format they play. My perception is that some play best in match play, some play best in team open events, some perform best in singles stroke play. Would be interesting if we had our own individual handicaps for different formats, rather than some generic Playing Allowance used for everyone on all formats
 

wjemather

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My partner sticks their second shot stiff, and they have a tap in birdie with a shot. Meanwhile, I chip my second out of a bush and still have 150 yards to green. After my 3rd I am 20 yards from the green, in the bunker. I'd really love to just pick up now, let my partner finish out, and we can move on. However, do I really need to keep playing until I've had at least 6 shots (assume I get a shot as well)?
No, at no point do you need to continue playing any given hole when your partner has it covered. MLS specifies how many strokes should be added to those already made. In your example, you'd simply pick up and add 3 or 4 strokes depending on the difficulty of your bunker shot and your general ability (or you'd have picked up earlier and done the same).
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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My partner sticks their second shot stiff, and they have a tap in birdie with a shot. Meanwhile, I chip my second out of a bush and still have 150 yards to green. After my 3rd I am 20 yards from the green, in the bunker. I'd really love to just pick up now, let my partner finish out, and we can move on. However, do I really need to keep playing until I've had at least 6 shots (assume I get a shot as well)?

Yeah, can't I'd be a fan of having rounds count for handicap in that format.

I'd be curious to see if many people would actually have different handicaps depending on the format they play. My perception is that some play best in match play, some play best in team open events, some perform best in singles stroke play. Would be interesting if we had our own individual handicaps for different formats, rather than some generic Playing Allowance used for everyone on all formats
Surely 4BBB rounds could never be included as WHS qualifiers as only the best ball is recorded...and the other might be no reflection whatsoever of the ability of the player.

There will be plenty of pairings where one of a pair is the player to play steady on every hole and the other player ‘goes for it‘ on every hole. Easy to imagine the steady player recording the better ball score for every hole and the other racking up doubles and triples galore. To force the ‘other’ player to hole out and submit his score for WHS purposes would clearly be complete and utter nonsense.
 

IanM

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No, at no point do you need to continue playing any given hole when your partner has it covered.

Heavily contradicting the point you made earlier.

They already are included in many jurisdictions, including USGA, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand (and Ireland).

Doesnt make it right and at odds with your point I've quoted at the start of this post, and utterly trashed by Hoges point as follows
Surely 4BBB rounds could never be included as WHS qualifiers as only the best ball is recorded...and the other might be no reflection whatsoever of the ability of the player.


I feel guilty for thinking most of the WHS Taskforce don't actually play golf but like to sit on committees........................... but they keep fuelling my assumption.
 

wjemather

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Heavily contradicting the point you made earlier.
Doesnt make it right and at odds with your point I've quoted at the start of this post, and utterly trashed by Hoges point as follows
I feel guilty for thinking most of the WHS Taskforce don't actually play golf but like to sit on committees........................... but they keep fuelling my assumption.
There seems to be some misunderstanding of what gets recorded, so let's try it this way - only your actual scores for completed holes, and MLS scores where you have picked up, get recorded for you; i.e. none of your partners hole scores get recorded for you and the resultant score is entirely your own.

Going back to Swango's example. Your partner scores a 3. You are 20+ yards away in the greenside bunker for 3 and pick up; your score is recorded as a 6 or 7 for handicapping.
 

Imurg

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There seems to be some misunderstanding of what gets recorded, so let's try it this way - only your actual scores for completed holes, and MLS scores where you have picked up, get recorded for you; i.e. none of your partners hole scores get recorded for you and the resultant score is entirely your own.

Going back to Swango's example. Your partner scores a 3. You are 20+ yards away in the greenside bunker for 3 and pick up; your score is recorded as a 6 or 7 for handicapping.
Even though you could hole the bunker shot or get up and down for a 5..but, because your PP is already in for a 3, you get penalised, potentially, 2 or 3 shots..:unsure:
Sounds perfectly fair to me........
 

ger147

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There seems to be some misunderstanding of what gets recorded, so let's try it this way - only your actual scores for completed holes, and MLS scores where you have picked up, get recorded for you; i.e. none of your partners hole scores get recorded for you and the resultant score is entirely your own.

Going back to Swango's example. Your partner scores a 3. You are 20+ yards away in the greenside bunker for 3 and pick up; your score is recorded as a 6 or 7 for handicapping.

I'm sorry but that's a complete nonsense!! What if I get up and down and get a 5? You can't just assume I will get a 6 or 7 because the format of the game dictates I should pick up.
 

IanM

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Going back to Swango's example. Your partner scores a 3. You are 20+ yards away in the greenside bunker for 3 and pick up; your score is recorded as a 6 or 7 for handicapping.

Absolutely no misunderstanding about what might be recorded at all. You SEEM not to have spotted that all these folk are saying that recording 6 or 7 for the "non" score is cobblers!!
 

wjemather

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Because nobody ever misses a 4 footer........
Even though you could hole the bunker shot or get up and down for a 5..but, because your PP is already in for a 3, you get penalised, potentially, 2 or 3 shots..:unsure:
Sounds perfectly fair to me........
I'm sorry but that's a complete nonsense!! What if I get up and down and get a 5? You can't just assume I will get a 6 or 7 because the format of the game dictates I should pick up.
It called "Most Likely Score", not "Almost Certain Score" or "Fantasy Score".
 
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Bdill93

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Quick one - tomorrow I have a betterball strokeplay comp in a 4 ball.

How many scores should I expect us to count per hole?
 

Swango1980

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It called "Most Likely Score", not "Almost Certain Score" or "Fantasy Score".
I've never been a fan of "Most Likely Score". I've played fourball better ball plenty of times where my partner (or even me sometimes) have only contributed once or twice in the entire round. I've played games were my partner has been absolutely woeful (or I've been very steady). I've also had other rounds where my partner has had a high handicapper and been unbelievable on many holes, getting onto greens in regulation with an extra shot on nearly every hole. It makes my round pretty much meaningless, and probably means I go round in 5-10 shots more than I need to because I just pick up very early in hole, or don't need to concentrate on a chip or a putt, etc.

In rounds like those above, you really could end up with a fantasy score, which could be quite a number of shots away from what would have actually happened. You could have a player with 14-15 Most Likey Scores on their card. Even 1 MLS could be a couple of shots away from reality, let alone 15.
 

IanM

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Good grief.. they fact you have tried means you have altered your action due to the format of play. The OUTCOME is not the issue.

4BBB and singles are not and should not be the same for handicapping proposes for the following reason. Read it slowly and carefully. .

In singles in you are aiming for the best score for yourself. In pairs, you are doing the best for the "pair" possibly sometimes to the detriment of your own personal score.

I am sorry if that was facetious. I can only assume you are not capable of understanding this or deliberately trolling.


EDIT - did he delete the post I replied to above while I was typing it!!! Thanks goodness for that.
 

wjemather

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Good grief.. they fact you have tried means you have altered your action due to the format of play. The OUTCOME is not the issue.

4BBB and singles are not and should not be the same for handicapping proposes for the following reason. Read it slowly and carefully. .

In singles in you are aiming for the best score for yourself. In pairs, you are doing the nest for the "pair" possibly sometimes to the detriment of your own personal score.

I am sorry if that was facetious. I can only assume you are not capable of understanding this or deliberately trolling.
If you could try and express yourself without resorting to insults, that would be grand.
 
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