World Handicap System (WHS)

[sweaty sock]

I feel massively out of touch.

So, if in strokeplay competition, two players are tied. I would have applied their handicap as per the hole stroke indexes, and declared a winner on who has the best net back 9. If still a tie then I would have repeated this for the last 6, then last 3, then last hole.
From above it seems I should take a percentage of handicap, regardless of the hole stroke indexes?
Does this apply in stableford? It's very possible that the stableford score on the back 9 will be very different to the back 9 with half the handicap applied - which wouldnt even be a stableford score?
How would the different slope values for back/front 9 effect it?

?

 

[jim8flog]

I take the point but countbacks don't stop at 3. They can go to all 18.

But re the words in red. The only thing I see in WHS is that Playing Handicaps are rounded. Has EG said anything else?

Surely the WHS does not decide competitions winners in all situations . I would have thought that where there is no specific procedure then a competition committee has the right to set the terms of the competition.

 

[jim8flog]

I feel massively out of touch.

So, if in strokeplay competition, two players are tied. I would have applied their handicap as per the hole stroke indexes, and declared a winner on who has the best net back 9. If still a tie then I would have repeated this for the last 6, then last 3, then last hole.
From above it seems I should take a percentage of handicap, regardless of the hole stroke indexes?
Does this apply in stableford? It's very possible that the stableford score on the back 9 will be very different to the back 9 with half the handicap applied - which wouldnt even be a stableford score?
How would the different slope values for back/front 9 effect it?

?

In a singles Medal (handicap stroke play) competition it is back 9 etc stroke indexes are irrelevant
These days the computers are programmed to do all the work.

 

[IanMcC]

These days the computers are programmed to do all the work.

Unless you are using ClubV1, and want to score a 2 tee competition fairly........then they are not programmed very well at all!

 

[sweaty sock]

In a singles Medal (handicap stroke play) competition it is back 9 etc stroke indexes are irrelevant
These days the computers are programmed to do all the work.

Stroke indexes are irrelevant? So if a scratch player and 17 handicap player both tie for first place, no matter what holes are on the back nine, no matter the back nine slope, no matter the back nine rating, for the purposes of countback the 17 handicap player has their back nine reduced by get 8.5 strokes? Seems wrong to me

 

[doublebogey7]

Unless you are using ClubV1, and want to score a 2 tee competition fairly........then they are not programmed very well at all!

Club v1, as I understand it, will assess the count back on the same nine, not sure how you could say assessing it on different nines where the CR and/or BR could be are very different would be fairer. On the wider point though I agree with Ethan in a handicap competetion decimals would be fairer and less random in nature than count back.

 

[sweaty sock]

I suppose I'm saying slope should be used in the countback. As all courses now have a rating for each of their 9's, a course handicap would be formed using the slope for 18 holes. If the slope varies between the front and back nine, then handicap allowance varies too? So it should in countback situations...

 

[jim8flog]

. On the wider point though I agree with Ethan in a handicap competetion decimals would be fairer and less random in nature than count back.

What decimals
Course Handicap before rounding?
Handicap Index?

 

[rulefan]

Anything that involves decimals or fractions should be removed from the world of real people and left to computers. If they aren't available, work in whole numbers. We count using our fingers, we don't cut bits off

 

[jim8flog]

..

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Our indexs are still wrong

Just got this email from the club

"It appears all scores from 1st July 2020 through to the end of September 2020 on the North East Course have been uploaded by England Golf on the Course and Slope Ratings of the harder 2xloops of the North Course"

Our index for the total course is whites 121 yellow 117 .

Slope for the whites on the north is 125 and yellow is 121

So does explain why everyone's handicap is a lot lower than it should be

 

[doublebogey7]

What decimals
Course Handicap before rounding?
Handicap Index?

it would have to be playing handicap.

 

[doublebogey7]

Anything that involves decimals or fractions should be removed from the world of real people and left to computers. If they aren't available, work in whole numbers. We count using our fingers, we don't cut bits off

I agree, computers are now processing all club competitions, so no reason why decimals can"t be used

 

[jim8flog]

it would have to be playing handicap.

Playing handicap!!

Playing handicaps are always rounded and halved for back nine so you could have players with either 0.5 or .00. May work with just 2 players.

 

[rulefan]

it would have to be playing handicap.

But by the rules PH is a whole number

The sun is just breaking through. I'm off to do some gardening. I'll hopefully get 95.3% of my lawn cut.

 

[doublebogey7]

Playing handicap!!

Playing handicaps are always rounded and halved for back nine so you could have players with either 0.5 or .00. May work with just 2 players.

With the technology we now have, all handicaps for competiton could be to as many decimal places as required to provide the fairest result.

 

[nickjdavis]

Anything that involves decimals or fractions should be removed from the world of real people and left to computers. If they aren't available, work in whole numbers. We count using our fingers, we don't cut bits off

Surely you use your toes for fractions/decimals?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Slope is an adjustment factor for the proportional degree of difficulty for the bogey player compared to the scratch player. 113 is the zero rated point where a course is not proportionately more difficult for the bogey player cf the scratch.

The course handicap is most similar to the current CONGU, because your current CONGU has the course difficulty baked in. The Handicap Index is essentially the handicap with the course factor stripped out, so should be comparable between players at different courses. Then when you go to any course for a game, including your own, you put the course factor back in again.

...and as course slope rating increases, the rate at which players get 'additional' shots on top of their HI speeds up. In other words - it takes a smaller increase in HI for a player to get an additional shot on high SR course than it does on a low SR course. That is why it is referred to as 'slope' - it is a 'gradient' that reflects the rate at which additional shots are added as HI increases.

 

[IanM]

So, my scores from previous years finally arrive on the portal. Nice green blobs next to the 8 scores being counted... except, there's a 84 in the mix, but the 82 the following week not counted. Same (home) course, same tees and it was a qualifying comp.

Any ideas? Other than the data recognition feeds don't work properly!

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So, my scores from previous years finally arrive on the portal. Nice green blobs next to the 8 scores being counted... except, there's a 84 in the mix, but the 82 the following week not counted. Same (home) course, same tees and it was a qualifying comp.

Any ideas? Other than the data recognition feeds don't work properly!

Is there an entry in the PCA column?[/QUOTE]