World Handicap System (WHS)

[jim8flog]

Well, Stableford works that way too! As does Medal wrt Stableford Adjustment, for a few more days, but there's an 'equivalent' in WHS). It's only in pure Scratch rounds where SI is ignored and there's not many of those played compared to other formats.

You are right but where I play Stableford is by far the most played format whether socially, swindles or competitions.

E.G in our club knockouts out of a membership of nearly 800 fewer than about 40 players enter.

In our Stableford comps we generally exceed 100 players and we have 4 a week.

Every single swindle I know of uses Stableford and there are 3 or 4 different swindles most days.

 

[rulefan]

Congu Pre WHS.
Remind me of the difference post WHS.

Appendix E in the RoH.

 

[badgergm]

Well, Stableford works that way too! As does Medal wrt Stableford Adjustment, for a few more days, but there's an 'equivalent' in WHS). It's only in pure Scratch rounds where SI is ignored and there's not many of those played compared to other formats.

problem is solved by having two sets, one for match play and one for stroke play. Which does happen in some places I believe.
i think it’s not universally adopted because it is thought to be too difficult for folk to cope with. Which, given the complexities of WHS is looking like a pretty weak argument.......

 

[Foxholer]

Appendix E in the RoH.

Better perhaps, but still a bit of an 'un-natural frig'!

 

[3offTheTee]

Will an expert please clarify:

My handicap index is 18.2.

However on the latest figure available up to 3/10/20 it is shown as18.6 Why the discrepancy please. Realise no scores have been posted since then.


Also when scores are added a 94 will be replaced by a 96. Am I correct in stating the extra2 shots will equate to 0.25 rounded up to 0.3 so depending on the first answers will be either 18.5 or 18.9.

Thanks for any help provided

 

[Leftitshort]

How does this bit stop blatant banditry? No minimum rounds per year, no compulsion to play qualifiers. Matchplay should be fun next year, even major stablefords could be a nonsense

 

[Imurg]

Just been looking at my numbers..
It seems I've got a supplementary card still to be used in the calculation
It was a good one - nett 4 under - and got me cut so that's going to drop my number when the last data dump happens.
But it also triggered an ESR..
Will the new system take that into account as well..?

Anyone got any idea how an ESR that doesn't appear in the WHS numbers gets handled..?

 

[rulefan]

problem is solved by having two sets, one for match play and one for stroke play. Which does happen in some places I believe.

Australia introduced two sets of indices some years ago. One based entirely on recorded difficulty for stroke play, the other on the strategic and tactical nuances of match play.
The allocation of strokes in the latter was mandated by Golf Australia and were therefore the same at all courses. The use of two cards was also mandated.
When the then EGU decided to follow suit by recommending two sets, they published the match play principles but left the fine tuning to the club. In the event many clubs didn't bother using the match play version because a) they didn't agree with the idea or b) decided they couldn't afford the cost signage and cards. My club switched to the the match play card with no side effects or comments from members (apart from having to remember where they got strokes in stablefords). We have tuned it slightly but still work to the same principles.
A club in Wales did a large computer simulation and showed that random distributions of indices made no significant difference to the top 3 stableford positions and only had a minor effect on the top 10 positions.

 

[nickjdavis]

How does this bit stop blatant banditry? No minimum rounds per year, no compulsion to play qualifiers. Matchplay should be fun next year, even major stablefords could be a nonsense

Easy. Condition of Competition: If you haven't submitted X scores in the prior 12 months you cannot enter/win prizes.

 

[Old Skier]

Easy. Condition of Competition: If you haven't submitted X scores in the prior 12 months you cannot enter/win prizes.

It’s amazing how many golfers and even clubs no nothing about this.

 

[nickjdavis]

Anyone got any idea how an ESR that doesn't appear in the WHS numbers gets handled..?

Don't know but I'm not sure it needs to be treated in any special way as it will be the actual scores that drive your initial WHS index allocation.

If a player has a long handicap record and the WHS starts at the beginning and takes the first 3 scores to generate the initial index then then builds the handicap up as the scores are generated then perhaps it could be argued that an exceptional score should generate the reduction appropriate....but I'll be honest....given that half the basics seem to have caused the WHS system problems, something that might take a little thought might be beyond them.

Weve got a player who put in 3 cards in Feb 2019...was allocated at 28 handicap. Never submitted another score until August 2020....has put in 3 supplementaries with nett differentials on -17, -4, -5 and got given in addition to his normal cuts a 3 shot ESR. Whilst the ESR doesnt figure in his WHS index the WHS has given him an index of 8.2 as it only recognises the 3 supplementaries that he has put in!!!

 

[Old Skier]

Don't know but I'm not sure it needs to be treated in any special way as it will be the actual scores that drive your initial WHS index allocation.

If a player has a long handicap record and the WHS starts at the beginning and takes the first 3 scores to generate the initial index then then builds the handicap up as the scores are generated then perhaps it could be argued that an exceptional score should generate the reduction appropriate....but I'll be honest....given that half the basics seem to have caused the WHS system problems, something that might take a little thought might be beyond them.

Weve got a player who put in 3 cards in Feb 2019...was allocated at 28 handicap. Never submitted another score until August 2020....has put in 3 supplementaries with nett differentials on -17, -4, -5 and got given in addition to his normal cuts a 3 shot ESR. Whilst the ESR doesnt figure in his WHS index the WHS has given him an index of 8.2 as it only recognises the 3 supplementaries that he has put in!!!

-17 looks a bit odd, fat fingers?

 

[BubbaP]

Anyone got any idea how an ESR that doesn't appear in the WHS numbers gets handled..?

My guess would be that ESR existed because there wasn't a rolling average, so I'd put my shekels on the good score just becoming part of the calculation.

 

[rosecott]

Will an expert please clarify:

My handicap index is 18.2.

However on the latest figure available up to 3/10/20 it is shown as18.6 Why the discrepancy please. Realise no scores have been posted since then.


Also when scores are added a 94 will be replaced by a 96. Am I correct in stating the extra2 shots will equate to 0.25 rounded up to 0.3 so depending on the first answers will be either 18.5 or 18.9.

Thanks for any help provided

I'm not quite sure what you mean. No-one knows yet what their Handicap Index is - only an indication or estimate is shown on the WHS platform.

 

[Leftitshort]

Easy. Condition of Competition: If you haven't submitted X scores in the prior 12 months you cannot enter/win prizes.

Cheers. That makes sense for club comps. How would this be proven for opens unless there is another supplementary record to be carried around? Why remove the active/inactive stipulation?

 

[rulefan]

My guess would be that ESR existed because there wasn't a rolling average, so I'd put my shekels on the good score just becoming part of the calculation.

That's my bet too.
I'm pretty sure that the approach would have been to process each CDH qualifying score in turn an apply the WHS formula to calculate HIs. Then apply the 8/20 to the latest 20 as they go by. It doesn't make sense to try and introduce CONGU machinations on the way.

 

[rulefan]

Cheers. That makes sense for club comps. How would this be proven for opens unless there is another supplementary record to be carried around? Why remove the active/inactive stipulation?

No doubt clubs will be given access to an individual's playing record as the can access the CDH now.

 

[Leftitshort]

No doubt clubs will be given access to an individual's playing record as the can access the CDH now.

It’s all very admin heavy! I know it’s not live until 2nd Nov but mines changed twice in the last week ??

 

[rulefan]

It’s all very admin heavy! I know it’s not live until 2nd Nov but mines changed twice in the last week ??

How does your club weed out bandits from your opens now?

 

[3offTheTee]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. No-one knows yet what their Handicap Index is - only an indication or estimate is shown on the WHS platform.

Thanks for the replySorry. My indicative index was 18.2 and I still have some scores to be added. However the number in the top right said 18.6 which I did not understand.

i would have expected the figures advised by EG to be the same as in the top right hand corner. My mistake and wondered why the differenec