World Handicap System (WHS)

[Troymcclure]

Hypothetical scenario but accounts for many of my games: 4 mates, friendly individual Stableford knock, not part of a bigger roll-up, gimmies given.

Are people applying the 95%?

In my case everyone is between 11 and 20 CH so if handicap allowance is applied, everyone loses a shot, not applied everyone stays the same.

Do we apply the 95% because, them's the rules, and also so that a sub-11 handicapper isn't disadvantaged by a shot on the rare occasion we're joined by a proper golfer?

No agenda here, just the question.

 

[Old Skier]

Hypothetical scenario but accounts for many of my games: 4 mates, friendly individual Stableford knock, not part of a bigger roll-up, gimmies given.

Are people applying the 95%?

In my case everyone is between 11 and 20 CH so if handicap allowance is applied, everyone loses a shot, not applied everyone stays the same.

Do we apply the 95% because, them's the rules, and also so that a sub-11 handicapper isn't disadvantaged by a shot on the rare occasion we're joined by a proper golfer?

No agenda here, just the question.

Personally as it’s a new system I would apply it to get people in the habit.

 

[IanG]

Hypothetical scenario but accounts for many of my games: 4 mates, friendly individual Stableford knock, not part of a bigger roll-up, gimmies given.

Are people applying the 95%?

In my case everyone is between 11 and 20 CH so if handicap allowance is applied, everyone loses a shot, not applied everyone stays the same.

Do we apply the 95% because, them's the rules, and also so that a sub-11 handicapper isn't disadvantaged by a shot on the rare occasion we're joined by a proper golfer?

No agenda here, just the question.

Slightly different here as most of our bounce games are 4BBB, but we do apply the 90% adjustment to the course handicaps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It’s not just whether ‘a round forces it’s way into your best 8’, it is also when one of your best 8 now drops off and which round replaces it, if your better rounds were all a long time ago then you can look forward to your index changing every round for a while.

It might well do but every change in my HI is not going to result in a change in my CH, and for as long as my CH does not change I am not that bothered.

 

[Old Skier]

Slightly different here as most of our bounce games are 4BBB, but we do apply the 90% adjustment to the course handicaps.

See #2548

 

[IanG]

See #2548

Not sure what you mean here? By 4BBB, I mean 4ball match play which has an allowance of 90% of CH.

 

[doublebogey7]

Only in theory, not in practice i.e. Scottish golf clubs all have charts printed showing CH as a whole number which no doubt most players will use to work out their PH from.

And that will matter not as the IT will have calculated it correctly for competition play. Also aren't the rest of the world doing it this way, seems we are the ones doing it wrong to me.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I had this argument with the pro in our shop before Xmas. They were running a pro roll up. Pay to enter the Comp then play.
When I asked what was the handicap allowance he said Course Handicap.
I said do you mean Playing handicap? No course handicap as it’s only a bit of fun.

Not much fun for me mate when all the mid / high handicappers are getting more shots that they should.

Same thing happened at our club in December. I called them all out as "cheating". Most of the single figure handicaps didn't complain as they did not understand the new system anyway. For calling them "cheats" I have been ostracised/vilified by a large social group at a club I first joined in 1974. The chairman of management does not respond to my emails. Chairman of H&C does an exquisite job of fence-sitting. Absolutely pathetic behaviour from people I used to call friends. Poor educational information from England Golf throughout 2020 has a lot to answer for. “A player is expected to act with integrity by following the rules of handicapping and to refrain from using, or circumventing, the rules of handicapping for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.” From Rules of Handicapping. How anyone can ignore such a clear statement is beyond me.

 

[patricks148]

Slightly different here as most of our bounce games are 4BBB, but we do apply the 90% adjustment to the course handicaps.

after yesterdays humping we will be suggesting bare feet on all 4BBB games from now on

 

[sweaty sock]

I reckon we just take the lead from the rest of sport. Bin handicaps entirely, and just let the best player on the day win. That would end pot hunting and ego trips in a stroke.

Also takes us one step closer to being the same rules the pros do and removing the bifurcation!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Same thing happened at our club in December. I called them all out as "cheating". Most of the single figure handicaps didn't complain as they did not understand the new system anyway. For calling them "cheats" I have been ostracised/vilified by a large social group at a club I first joined in 1974. The chairman of management does not respond to my emails. Chairman of H&C does an exquisite job of fence-sitting. Absolutely pathetic behaviour from people I used to call friends. Poor educational information from England Golf throughout 2020 has a lot to answer for. “A player is expected to act with integrity by following the rules of handicapping and to refrain from using, or circumventing, the rules of handicapping for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.” From Rules of Handicapping. How anyone can ignore such a clear statement is beyond me.

So a roll up decided to use their own handicap system and scoring system and you called them cheats ? ?‍

Every roll up I play in we use our own system as well and won’t be using any 95% rule

The only time that will be used will be for official qualifying competitions

Why are people “cheating” if they use their own system

 

[chrisd]

I reckon we just take the lead from the rest of sport. Bin handicaps entirely, and just let the best player on the day win. That would end pot hunting and ego trips in a stroke.

Also takes us one step closer to being the same rules the pros do and removing the bifurcation!

And would mean that the same few players would win everything and no one slightly over the lowest handicap would play.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Stableford is now 95% of your CH.

Obviously you can do what you want, but that's how it is now.

...and in stableford we play one hole at a time...so any difference in shots received when applying the 95% factor obviously has the potential to impact your score on the holes you lose a shot on. And depending upon handicaps of your group that impact cold be different. As @OS - we should apply the handicapping as defined and in the first instance just to get used to it.

 

[jim8flog]

Personally as it’s a new system I would apply it to get people in the habit.

I originally suggested this in one of the swindles I play in. Originally everybody agreed but somehow it was not adopted.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things about al that appears to have been missed is that I know quite a few of the swindles where I play operate their own handicap system any way which is only loosely based upon a players official handicap.

One I joined I won first time I played in it, they cut me two shots and I never got those two shots back for nearly 10 years, when they decided to change to a new system.

 

[Voyager EMH]

One of the things about al that appears to have been missed is that I know quite a few of the swindles where I play operate their own handicap system any way which is only loosely based upon a players official handicap.

One I joined I won first time I played in it, they cut me two shots and I never got those two shots back for nearly 10 years, when they decided to change to a new system.

Any system that a social group decides upon is OK with me if it treats everyone the same so can be considered "fair". It is "unfair" if some players are allowed an extra shot added to their handicap, but other players are never allowed for this to be given. Your old handicap that you use to play off in stableford has been replaced with a Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay. This is my view of the reality. We are here for an exchange of views. Others may take a different view. I am interested by the different views expressed here.
There is no such thing as individual stableford with a 100% allowance. Playing Handicap plus one shot - would have to apply to everyone for it to be fair.

 

[jim8flog]

Any system that a social group decides upon is OK with me if it treats everyone the same so can be considered "fair". It is "unfair" if some players are allowed an extra shot added to their handicap, but other players are never allowed for this to be given. Your old handicap that you use to play off in stableford has been replaced with a Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay. This is my view of the reality. We are here for an exchange of views. Others may take a different view. I am interested by the different views expressed here.
There is no such thing as individual stableford with a 100% allowance. Playing Handicap plus one shot - would have to apply to everyone for it to be fair.

Their was a quote from Pete Dye about Sawgrass last week

" Golf is never a fair game so why should I build a course that is fair"

seems very fitting.

 

[sweaty sock]

And would mean that the same few players would win everything and no one slightly over the lowest handicap would play.

So we should be happy that even for its (many) difficulties. The handicapping system is still the best of its kind in any sport, and allows anyone of any skill level to compete on a more or less level playing field?

 

[Troymcclure]

Personally as it’s a new system I would apply it to get people in the habit.

The habit of what?

Doing the calculation or playing off the different handicap the 95% produces? I’m not so sure we need to either way. I think most will choose not to apply it. And 1 shot (I’ve never played with anyone higher than 31 handicap) on a different hole is unlikely to change strategy significantly (remember we’re taking friendly knocks with mates here), and in comps your PH will be printed on the card: no computation necessary.

Still unsure what to suggest to my mates who will be looking to me, as the only one to take much interest in WHS so far. I’m just picturing their crestfallen faces on the 1st when they proudly tell me they’ve downloaded an app, thus retrieved their HI, looked at the big new wallchart and ascertained they’re off 13 if we play whites or 12 yellows. “Wrong guys, it’s 12 or 11, you haven’t applied the 95% handicap allowance.”

 

[Troymcclure]

I think I’ve had a re-think just in the 5 minutes since I last posted ? If we don’t apply the 95% then it will seem odd when we get “docked” a shot in comps. I guess that’s the habit. I think I’ll try and instigate the handicap allowance.