World Handicap System (WHS)

[doublebogey7]

Jeez, already the dinosaurs are coming out in force.

Everyone will know what their Course Handicap is, if we play Stableford we just use 95% of that, what could be more simple or less hassle???

Conversation on 1st tee:

Starts ⏱ stopwatch:

"My CH is 17, how many shots do I get?"

" Take off 5%, 0.85, that's 16.15, you get 16"

"Oh, it's that simple? All the grumpy old farts have been banging on about how complicated it is. Is it really that simple?".

"Yes, they are idiots."

"Cool, thanks."
Stops stopwatch ⏱.

What's that? 5 seconds???

Some of these people really need to get a grip.

And will likely be the same people moaning in the bar after about how kids don't learn fractions any more at school.

 

[sweaty sock]

I thought Scotltish Golf were using the course rating/par calculation.

No, GB and I all doing calculation without course rating minus par...

 

[doublebogey7]

No, GB and I all doing calculation without course rating minus par...

My mistake, confusing that with Scotish Golf using exact CH for PH calculations, I think.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If someone only played strokeplay, under CONGU, their handicap was their handicap
If I played off 6.4 I got 6 shots
Simple.
Now I have to look at a board, find my course handicap and then do a calculation to see if lose a shot or not.
Less simple.
Which is why there will be a number of people, rollups etc who either won't be bothered, can't be bothered or will get it wrong.
Yeah, it's a pretty straightforward calculation but its another step that some just won't do.

Every rollup and just about every match I play in is going to be at my it's own course, and so I'm thinking that after the first time in the I will know my 95% and 85% PHs - I won't have to work it out every time I need to know either. I'll just know it. Surely...

 

[ger147]

Every rollup and just about every match I play in is going to be at my it's own course, and so I'm thinking that after the first time in the I will know my 95% and 85% PHs - I won't have to work it out every time I need to know either. I'll just know it. Surely...

Newsflash, your handicap index can change after every round and therefore your CH and PH could be different etc. ??

 

[ger147]

My mistake, confusing that with Scotish Golf using exact CH for PH calculations, I think.

Only in theory, not in practice i.e. Scottish golf clubs all have charts printed showing CH as a whole number which no doubt most players will use to work out their PH from.

 

[nickjdavis]

Newsflash, your handicap index can change after every round and therefore your CH and PH could be different etc. ??

My index will not go up for another 10 rounds....and given the layoff I've had its unlikely that any of the next few rounds will become part of the best 8 selection!!!

 

[Old Skier]

I had this argument with the pro in our shop before Xmas. They were running a pro roll up. Pay to enter the Comp then play.
When I asked what was the handicap allowance he said Course Handicap.
I said do you mean Playing handicap? No course handicap as it’s only a bit of fun.

Not much fun for me mate when all the mid / high handicappers are getting more shots that they should.

A great example of how members are going to end getting confused and your club pro should know better

 

[IanG]

Only in theory, not in practice i.e. Scottish golf clubs all have charts printed showing CH as a whole number which no doubt most players will use to work out their PH from.

Except that the software systems we all use will do it using the exact calculations so there will be some confusion until people learn that and accept that difference.

The increasing prevalence of mixed tee ( and /or gender) competitions means that computer help is needed for most comps nowadays anyhow.

Mixed roll-ups off multiple tees without a computer is fun and games as we have found out over the past few months

 

[Old Skier]

Jeez, already the dinosaurs are coming out in force.

Everyone will know what their Course Handicap is, if we play Stableford we just use 95% of that, what could be more simple or less hassle???

Conversation on 1st tee:

Starts ⏱ stopwatch:

"My CH is 17, how many shots do I get?"

" Take off 5%, 0.85, that's 16.15, you get 16"

"Oh, it's that simple? All the grumpy old farts have been banging on about how complicated it is. Is it really that simple?".

"Yes, they are idiots."

"Cool, thanks."
Stops stopwatch ⏱.

What's that? 5 seconds???

Some of these people really need to get a grip.

No necessarily, our “old farts grasped it“ straight away but they didn’t bother reading this thread, just the simple instructions that we passed out via email and simple posters in the clubhouse.

 

[Old Skier]

Your course handicap is HI 3.8 times slope rating divided bt 118, so 4.2.

It’s a lot simpler if you stop using the maths and stick to the relevant displayed information or perhaps, look at the EG app which gives you the relevant course information and then use the necessary allowance for the comp being played.

 

[ger147]

Except that the software systems we all use will do it using the exact calculations so there will be some confusion until people learn that and accept that difference.

The increasing prevalence of mixed tee ( and /or gender) competitions means that computer help is needed for most comps nowadays anyhow.

Mixed roll-ups off multiple tees without a computer is fun and games as we have found out over the past few months

Was talking about the informal games using the lookup charts etc.

For club comps, as you say nothing is necessary. I sign in and it tells me what my PH is so no calculations, rounding etc. required.

 

[Old Skier]

Was talking about the informal games using the lookup charts etc.

For club comps, as you say nothing is necessary. I sign in and it tells me what my PH is so no calculations, rounding etc. required.

And if the club has the PSI rigged to a label printer it will also give you course and playing HC to stick on your card.

 

[Voyager EMH]

So the reality is, turn up on Saturday, a bit worse for wear, pack in a bacon sandwich and a quick coffee. Bundle out to the tee, one guy says I am marking the card for the roll up stableford. (Reality, who has a card, anyone? You are marking). What's every one off?
So first guy, I am index 10.1. What the heck does that mean? So the guy doing the card has to look up 10.1, and find out his playing handicap is 12. Fine. But it's not 12, because his handicap allowance is actually 95%, so 11.4, as in 11.
So on for the others, as I can guarantee none if them will have a clue, if they even remember their HI.

Then, let's chuck the balls up for a bit of 4bbb while we are out here. Have a scoot at the card you have just written the h/caps on. Nope. That doesn't help. Why? Because it is 90% of playing, not allowance, and he has just written down the allowance. Cue re shuffle, phaff about, and the guy off 10.1 is back to 10.8, so still 11, but a totally different calculation.

This is so far away from what people used to do, it will be confusing, and I would guess that most will use some form of hybrid mess that WHS was supposed to sort out.

Wow! An almost perfect description of my experience of my three games in December. I met only one other member who new how to do 4bbb correctly. A very large majority are insisting on 100% CH for individual stableford in roll-ups. As a 4.3 HI, I said I was being cheated against by a majority. This prompted some to tell me to "not continue to play in this group if you don't like our rules." I have tried saying, "Remember your old handicap that you used to play off in medals and stablefords? Well, that has been replaced with a Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay. No effect. Information sent out by England Golf through golf clubs to members was not good enough. The facts did not sink in with many. Now that they are sticking so rigidly to their misconceptions the proper learning process will be much longer than it could have been. At least from 1st April I can play two club comps a week where handicaps will be correct and I can keep away from the arguments. Quite a tough thing to be a tiny minority (one) who is well informed and correct arguing with an angry majority. Time will tell. I hope.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Newsflash, your handicap index can change after every round and therefore your CH and PH could be different etc. ??

Not that much or that frequently - and if a round forces it's way into my best 8 and my HI changes such that my CH is changed then I work out my new 95% and 85%. It's not as if my CH is going to be changing after every round - it's not. Far from it I suspect.

 

[D-S]

Not that much or that frequently - and if a round forces it's way into my best 8 and my HI changes such that my CH is changed then I work out my new 95% and 85%. It's not as if my CH is going to be changing after every round - it's not. Far from it I suspect.

It’s not just whether ‘a round forces it’s way into your best 8’, it is also when one of your best 8 now drops off and which round replaces it, if your better rounds were all a long time ago then you can look forward to your index changing every round for a while.

 

[Old Skier]

Wow! An almost perfect description of my experience of my three games in December. I met only one other member who new how to do 4bbb correctly. A very large majority are insisting on 100% CH for individual stableford in roll-ups. As a 4.3 HI, I said I was being cheated against by a majority. This prompted some to tell me to "not continue to play in this group if you don't like our rules." I have tried saying, "Remember your old handicap that you used to play off in medals and stablefords? Well, that has been replaced with a Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay. No effect. Information sent out by England Golf through golf clubs to members was not good enough. The facts did not sink in with many. Now that they are sticking so rigidly to their misconceptions the proper learning process will be much longer than it could have been. At least from 1st April I can play two club comps a week where handicaps will be correct and I can keep away from the arguments. Quite a tough thing to be a tiny minority (one) who is well informed and correct arguing with an angry majority. Time will tell. I hope.

With all the tools and information that clubs had to assist its members change over to the WHS it seems like your club has done very little.

 

[jim8flog]

Your course handicap is HI 3.8 times slope rating divided bt 118, so 4.2.

Is that a typo? It is divide by 113.
Remember they are in Scotland so rounding is different to England as well.

 

[Old Skier]

Some may benefit from https://www.englandgolf.org/handica... Union Limited&dm_i=4ON0,114QQ,3B8AOK,4O43A,1

 

[ger147]

Not that much or that frequently - and if a round forces it's way into my best 8 and my HI changes such that my CH is changed then I work out my new 95% and 85%. It's not as if my CH is going to be changing after every round - it's not. Far from it I suspect.

I thought you will be playing 3 qualifiers a week? A brand new set of 20 rounds every 7 weeks so could well be more variations than you are expecting ??