World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

127

Did you de-slope the scores ?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

79 might be due to CSS increase, or because you had a treble that counts as a double

Cheers Sam ?

 

[rulefan]

127

Did you allow for the slope in your comparison?

 

[MendieGK]

Did you allow for the slope in your comparison?

In terms of how close the course rating people were? No. I’ve not gone into it that much. As I’ve owned up to before I very much have taken the old view of CSS

 

[MendieGK]

Did you allow for the slope in your comparison?

Hands held up here. I assumed course rating went down 1 when the par did. It doesn’t seem like that’s the case.
so effectively based on my expectations PCC did go up 2

 

[rulefan]

Hands held up here. I assumed course rating went down 1 when the par did. It doesn’t seem like that’s the case.
so effectively based on my expectations PCC did go up 2

Course Rating is simply the new name for SSS but expressed a decimal. It gives the difficulty of the whole course for a scratch player (ie the number of stroke he is expected to take for the round). I considers the position and size of obstacles (eg water, bunkers), trees and green contours etc in addition to length.

Par is no more than the sum of the pars of each hole on the course. And the par for a hole is an indication of the length of the hole. It says nothing about difficulty and really not a lot about the length. eg a par 4 can be anything from 240 to 490 yards. So a course of 18 x 250 yards will have the same par as a course of 18 x 450 yards ie 72 but the Course Rating will be very different. ie about 61ish as apposed to about 77ish

 

[rosecott]

Hence me saying roughly 19% being the moving mark.

Under CONGU, as a rough estimate, 6% or less in buffer to be Reductions Only.

 

[Bdill93]

Two rounds this weekend (one yet to show on WHS from yesterday)

85 Satuday, 88 Sunday (CR 67.1 PCC 2)

Card numbers 6 and 7.

85 and 92 showing as my current two "counter" rounds - index down to 17.3! Started the weekend at index 23.1 so a decent effort in tough golfing conditions. Should adjust again soon when the 88 comes into play.

I do look forward to a slightly less volitile handicap though!

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I doubt even the cleverest system could accommodate for a mid-December medal at Burnham ??

Brutal track. And I played it in late May ?

 

[Soft hands]

I imagine this has already been asked....but roll ups with your mates can count towards handicap now can’t they?

What’s stopping people putting 10 quick less than honest poor or good scores in to move handicap?

 

[Swango1980]

I imagine this has already been asked....but roll ups with your mates can count towards handicap now can’t they?

What’s stopping people putting 10 quick less than honest poor or good scores in to move handicap?

Yes, they can, as long as they pre-register first.

What is stopping them? I guess integrity. Yes, if someone lacks integrity, then they could play a lot of consecutive rounds with poor scores, and get a quick increase. I guess it will take handicap committees to look out for such behaviour. Not sure if the WHS software will flag any unusually quick increases like this to bring it to the attention of Committees.

 

[YandaB]

I imagine this has already been asked....but roll ups with your mates can count towards handicap now can’t they?

What’s stopping people putting 10 quick less than honest poor or good scores in to move handicap?

Nothing to stop people doing that but there is a Low Handicap Index which is used with 2 "caps" that "restrains/limits" the movement a little (but clearly not nearly as much as the 1 shot in the old rules):

1. The soft cap. The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.
   When a calculated Handicap Index increase is greater than 3.0 strokes, the value above 3.0 strokes is restricted to 50% of the increase.
2. The hard cap. The hard cap triggers to restrict the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase, after application of the soft cap, to no more than 5.0 strokes above their Low Handicap Index.

 

[Soft hands]

Nothing to stop people doing that but there is a Low Handicap Index which is used with 2 "caps" that "restrains/limits" the movement a little (but clearly not nearly as much as the 1 shot in the old rules):

1. The soft cap. The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.
   When a calculated Handicap Index increase is greater than 3.0 strokes, the value above 3.0 strokes is restricted to 50% of the increase.
2. The hard cap. The hard cap triggers to restrict the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase, after application of the soft cap, to no more than 5.0 strokes above their Low Handicap Index.

Thanks for that.

Can I ask, why not just keep it as qualifying competitions as it is has been?

I mean I know you could still declare a card before you went out, but it seemed a rare occurrence

 

[YandaB]

I did notice the Golf Monthly article published today regarding the survey done on new Handicap Indexes. I was a little surprised to see:

"There has been plenty of initial debate about the correctness of Slope Ratings at clubs up and down the country – “How can my course be rated the same as ‘that’ course which is so much more difficult?”​

Inevitably there will be discrepancies and the governing bodies will need to review their ratings after a period of time."​

Surely this was an educational opportunity to point out that the difficulty of courses is the Course Rating and that the Slope is about the relative difficulty for a High Handicapper versus a scratch player. This seems to be the overriding misaprehension that people have (imho).

 

[rulefan]

This seems to be the overriding misaprehension that people have (imho).

This seems to be the misapprehension that Golf Monthly has.

 

[Swango1980]

I did notice the Golf Monthly article published today regarding the survey done on new Handicap Indexes. I was a little surprised to see:

"There has been plenty of initial debate about the correctness of Slope Ratings at clubs up and down the country – “How can my course be rated the same as ‘that’ course which is so much more difficult?”​

Inevitably there will be discrepancies and the governing bodies will need to review their ratings after a period of time."​

Surely this was an educational opportunity to point out that the difficulty of courses is the Course Rating and that the Slope is about the relative difficulty for a High Handicapper versus a scratch player. This seems to be the overriding misaprehension that people have (imho).

Completely agree. I wouldn't be surprised if MOST golfers think Slope simply represents absolute difficulty, and therefore consider the Slope to be wrong when a clearly harder course does not have a much higher slope (easiest example would be comparing yellow and white tees at the same club in many instances). And, even if many golfers are told exactly what slope is, many still fail to grasp the concept.

 

[YandaB]

This seems to be the misapprehension that Golf Monthly has.

Maybe @MarkT can comment on behalf of GM?

 

[IanM]

I doubt even the cleverest system could accommodate for a mid-December medal at Burnham ??

Brutal track. And I played it in late May ?

In December the tees are forward and the rough is cut back

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

In December the tees are forward and the rough is cut back

Every little helps! Do they turn the wind off?

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks for that.

Can I ask, why not just keep it as qualifying competitions as it is has been?

I mean I know you could still declare a card before you went out, but it seemed a rare occurrence

Not where I play. This year pre WHS we were actively encouraging players to put in as many cards as possible. We saw a very large increase as a direct result.
At the WHS workshops it was stressed to attendees to try to get the members to do this.

Nothing to stop people doing that but there is a Low Handicap Index which is used with 2 "caps" that "restrains/limits" the movement a little (but clearly not nearly as much as the 1 shot in the old rules):

1. The soft cap. The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.
   When a calculated Handicap Index increase is greater than 3.0 strokes, the value above 3.0 strokes is restricted to 50% of the increase.
2. The hard cap. The hard cap triggers to restrict the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase, after application of the soft cap, to no more than 5.0 strokes above their Low Handicap Index.

Thanks for that.

Can I ask, why not just keep it as qualifying competitions as it is has been?

I mean I know you could still declare a card before you went out, but it seemed a rare occurrence

From memory-

I think I remember that caps only kick in when a low handicap index has been established and this is only after there are 20 scores in a players record.