World Handicap System (WHS)

[MarkT]

Maybe @MarkT can comment on behalf of GM?

Thanks, will have a read and pass on.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Intrigued by the caps ... My exact handicap in the WHS system after my 20th round was +0.8. My current exact handicap is 6.1.

I'm not playing brill at the moment, but I am putting in a card each time I play. Shooting between 78-82 most rounds, which is pretty good as we're losing a ball or two plugged in the rough and hitting it about 210 off the tee in the current conditions!

Not going to get deterred, as I enjoy putting a card in so that I've got something to play for throughout - but every chance I'll be up to a 8-9 handicap before long. Worth noting that I'm yet to see a PCC change, likely because less than 8 people have put a card in on any day I've played. That said, I'm yet to see anybody play to their handicap in the conditions we've played in.

So yeah, feel like if there is a soft/hard cap, I'll be coming up against it pretty soon ... so can report back!

 

[MarkT]

Maybe @MarkT can comment on behalf of GM?

Have you got a link to the article? Ta

 

[YandaB]

Have you got a link to the article? Ta

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/feat...ions-to-the-world-handicap-system-been-215576

 

[jim8flog]

Intrigued by the caps ... My exact handicap in the WHS system after my 20th round was +0.8. My current exact handicap is 6.1.

We are on Intelligent Golf

My Low Handicap Index is shown on my Handicap Record on there. It is a bit odd that it is not shown (as far as I can see) on the England Golf platform.

I have already used up half of my allowance. Mind you I am hoping to get back down again, just one good round in the next 5 will do.

 

[Green Man]

We play in a group of about 12-16 players every week. On returning to golf after the recent lockdown I was shocked at how many of the guys had no idea about WHS. Most knew there had been a change but they thought their new index was their handicap. They were surprised that they had a Course handicap but the shock confusion really stepped in when I told them as we are playing stableford so they only get 95%.
Most of these guys won’t have read anything about WHS and with the lack of communication from our club about it other than an email telling us to register on England golf website I can hardly blame them. I’ve gone from one handicap to three was a complaint. I didn’t have the heart to tell them that there is a further playing cap for the different tees.

 

[sweaty sock]

Intrigued by the caps ... My exact handicap in the WHS system after my 20th round was +0.8. My current exact handicap is 6.1.

I'm not playing brill at the moment, but I am putting in a card each time I play. Shooting between 78-82 most rounds, which is pretty good as we're losing a ball or two plugged in the rough and hitting it about 210 off the tee in the current conditions!

Not going to get deterred, as I enjoy putting a card in so that I've got something to play for throughout - but every chance I'll be up to a 8-9 handicap before long. Worth noting that I'm yet to see a PCC change, likely because less than 8 people have put a card in on any day I've played. That said, I'm yet to see anybody play to their handicap in the conditions we've played in.

So yeah, feel like if there is a soft/hard cap, I'll be coming up against it pretty soon ... so can report back!

Hang on? Are you saying you've gone up 7 shots in 2 weeks?!

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Hang on? Are you saying you've gone up 7 shots in 2 weeks?!

No - but the England Golf system shows what your moving handicap would have been over the last couple of years. Discounting what it shows for rounds 1-19 (although they were all generally between +1 - 3), the handicap which would have been given to me based on the average of my best 8 from 20, following my 20th round was +0.8.

This was somewhat skewed by a couple of very strong rounds, one of which was -3 gross in our county champs when standard scratch was 3 above (PCC showing as 3) - so when these fell out of the most recent 20, my handicap started it's upwards journey to where I am now. After my 40th qualifying round I was showing as a 2.1.

It will be interesting to see how much movement is allowed though. When we started after lockdown I was 5.6, after 4 rounds I'm already at 6.1, and just about to lose two of my lower scores from my most recent 20 - meaning I could be off 7 by Christmas! Absolutely fine for me during the winter - but may feel a little generous when the courses start to dry up a little in the Spring!

 

[Swango1980]

No - but the England Golf system shows what your moving handicap would have been over the last couple of years. Discounting what it shows for rounds 1-19 (although they were all generally between +1 - 3), the handicap which would have been given to me based on the average of my best 8 from 20, following my 20th round was +0.8.

This was somewhat skewed by a couple of very strong rounds, one of which was -3 gross in our county champs when standard scratch was 3 above (PCC showing as 3) - so when these fell out of the most recent 20, my handicap started it's upwards journey to where I am now. After my 40th qualifying round I was showing as a 2.1.

It will be interesting to see how much movement is allowed though. When we started after lockdown I was 5.6, after 4 rounds I'm already at 6.1, and just about to lose two of my lower scores from my most recent 20 - meaning I could be off 7 by Christmas! Absolutely fine for me during the winter - but may feel a little generous when the courses start to dry up a little in the Spring!

This is the purpose of the soft and hard caps. Once your Index goes beyond 3 shots higher than your lowest index in the last year, any extra increases are halved. This continues until your Index is 5 higher than your lowest in the last year, and then no more increases (this is the hard cap)

 

[sweaty sock]

So the 2 69s are calculating +4.2 as the calc is something like best score minus 3.... when you only use 3 rounds (or something like that...)

Thats a ridiculous situation to be in.

Its going to get worse too, as you"ll grind to a complete stop at 1.2!

 

[Swango1980]

Just when I thought I was on the road to sorting out the mess that is my new handicap with the help of "general play" scores to represent my current level, I have discovered that I am now falling foul of this "Low Handicap Index" and "Soft Cap" malarkey. ??

Despite being off 0.5, ie 1, at close of play on 1st November, 2 of my early counting rounds towards WHS are both 69, this has somehow given me a Low Handicap Index of -4.2. Yes, a fast-approaching-middle-aged-man doing his best to play off 1, never better than scratch, has been decreed by WHS to have the figure of Plus4.2 affecting his handicap...

The problem this is causing is that once I reached plus1.2, any further upwards adjustment is halved. So when the first 69 was replaced by a 74, a differential of 4.4 divided by 8, instead of going up 0.6, I only went up 0.3. So basically I'm now only going up half what I should do based on some ridiculously arbitrary figure of plus4.2 that does not in any shape or form represent the level of golf that I have ever been anywhere near.

-4.2 is mega impressive. You must have had an average of your best 8 scores out of 20 coming to -4.2? For players with fewer than 20 scores, and especially those with only 3 or 4, one good round can provide a very low index as there is not enough to go on. However, the low index shouldn't take hold until a player has 20 scores. For example, my mates playing history has him with an Index of +2.0 after 5 rounds in his history, in May 2018. In May 2019 his Index was shown as 3.3, although still not with 20 scores yet.

 

[jim8flog]

Just when I thought I was on the road to sorting out the mess that is my new handicap with the help of "general play" scores to represent my current level, I have discovered that I am now falling foul of this "Low Handicap Index" and "Soft Cap" malarkey. ??

Despite being off 0.5, ie 1, at close of play on 1st November, 2 of my early counting rounds towards WHS are both 69, this has somehow given me a Low Handicap Index of -4.2. Yes, a fast-approaching-middle-aged-man doing his best to play off 1, never better than scratch, has been decreed by WHS to have the figure of Plus4.2 affecting his handicap...

The problem this is causing is that once I reached plus1.2, any further upwards adjustment is halved. So when the first 69 was replaced by a 74, a differential of 4.4 divided by 8, instead of going up 0.6, I only went up 0.3. So basically I'm now only going up half what I should do based on some ridiculously arbitrary figure of plus4.2 that does not in any shape or form represent the level of golf that I have ever been anywhere near.

It is worth bearing in mind that soft and hard caps are done on a 365 day rolling basis so when those early really good scores fall out of the 365 days your Low Handicap Index may reset to something more representative.

 

[Swango1980]

No this is what I don't get, the average of the best 8 was nowhere near -4.2 after 20 scores. My HI after 20 was -1.2, but this included some duff info input somewhere along the line in 2 separate county comps, by my calcs it should have been about -0.6, give or take depending on rounding.

Any idea how long this Low Handicap Index is valid? 1 of the 69s has already dropped off.

Once your 20th score was entered, that is when the Low Index is set / starts. Following that, your soft and hard caps are attached to either that low value (or a lower Index since, which would become your low index). They look back no further than 1 year.

So, in summary, you are saying an Index of -4.2 was never correct, and was based on duff info?

 

[jim8flog]

Cool thanks for the info.
Roll on March.

Made me just re check mine

Realised I have got to go to June 21 before it resets to something more realistic of current form. Mind you one good round in the next 5 and it might only change by one shot.
The oldest 5 are not in the best 8 but like you they are recorded against the wrong course so appear better than they actually were by 2 shots on every round.

 

[Swango1980]

I'll try and explain it better.

When we changed over systems to WHS, we all then had access to how our previous scores would have looked under WHS.

Due to being abroad, not playing at all for over a year etc, etc, my 1st score in this last 2 year rolling period was March this year, a 69.
As I look down my scoring record, which shows the ever-evolving HI alongside the scores, the figure -4.2 appears.
Once I reached 20 scores, my HI was -1.1.
Having last week replaced the initial 69 with a 74, that "never actually was" figure of -4.2 is now only allowing my HI to go up at 50% of the normal rate.

The duff info relates to later scores of 70 and 72 in County comps where the CR and PCC are both too high meaning my differentials for those 2 rounds are too big (under), that is also making my handicap too low but I'm banging my head against a brick wall getting it sorted.

I don't think your -4.2 is your Low Index. From what you say, the -4.2 Index showed on your scoring history next to one of your scores that was part of your 1st 20 scores. The Low Index should not be set until the 20th score is in. So, that value seems to be -1.1 (in bold), which would have been your low index at that point, and then it would only become lower than that if subsequent scores reduced your Index further.

Annoyingly, it doesn't seem like your Low Index is clearly shown on the MyEG App or website. However, when I log into the WHS Portal for club admin, the Low Index value is clearly shown for each player.

 

[jim8flog]

.

Annoyingly, it doesn't seem like your Low Index is clearly shown on the MyEG App or website. However, when I log into the WHS Portal for club admin, the Low Index value is clearly shown for each player.

Although not shown as a separate figure it is very easy to see on the EG website (personal) it is the lowest figure for the players HI in the last 365 days.

 

[Swango1980]

Oh yes it is.....
And over the weekend I should have dropped from - 1.1 to - 0.5, instead I went to - 0.8.
View attachment 34002

I'm intrigued in looking at your scoring history to see when the -4.2 was taken from. I'd have thought your handicap secretary could either explain how it is correct, or agree it is in error and be constantly harassing England Golf to sort it if he/she can't themselves

 

[MIkeJS]

What surprises me about the new system is the lack of significant difference to the course handicap between tees and between different clubs. I have played regularly in areas that have used the slope system for a few years, inc in Mauritius last year. In Mauritius there was a 3 stroke difference between the yellow and the white tee. All the UK clubs I have looked at at the moment, that I am familiar with, have at most a 1 stroke difference for me between the white and yellow tees and many of them are the same. Similarly, when I look at my course handicap for courses I consider to be considerably easier or harder then my home course I see at most a change of 1. In fact on one course I play regularly which is much shorter and easier than my home course I get the same course handicap as my home course and it stays the same off of the whites, yellows and reds!! There seems to be very little differentiation between our courses and tee positions in England. Is this because for GB&I we calculate ‘Without Course Rating Minus Par’?

 

[Swango1980]

What surprises me about the new system is the lack of significant difference to the course handicap between tees and between different clubs. I have played regularly in areas that have used the slope system for a few years, inc in Mauritius last year. In Mauritius there was a 3 stroke difference between the yellow and the white tee. All the UK clubs I have looked at at the moment, that I am familiar with, have at most a 1 stroke difference for me between the white and yellow tees and many of them are the same. Similarly, when I look at my course handicap for courses I consider to be considerably easier or harder then my home course I see at most a change of 1. In fact on one course I play regularly which is much shorter and easier than my home course I get the same course handicap as my home course and it stays the same off of the whites, yellows and reds!! There seems to be very little differentiation between our courses and tee positions in England. Is this because for GB&I we calculate ‘Without Course Rating Minus Par’?

Yes. And, I'm still not convinced ignoring CR-Par is a good thing.

 

[rulefan]

Question on scramble stroke allowances, I know it's 25%, 20%, 15% and 10% from lowest to highest.

If, for example the percentages work out to 2 decimal points, e.g 0.15, 0.45 etc etc, do you add up the numbers as they are or do you round each number to one decimal place before adding?

Thanks.

Round to the nearest whole number. Rule 6.2a