World Cup

[CheltenhamHacker]

You keep saying this!!!!!!!!! I agree that the plan they have works. What you are missing is that the FA, ultimately in charge of the England team, won't do this. Add in the involvement and self interest of the PL and this is never going to be adopted. Dyke for all his faults came up with a report and his findings were dismissed out of hand despite him showing what any footballer employed to do the role would have done, there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18.

It doesn't matter who the FA employ to write the report, the findings are already there. The problem is while the FA and PL effectively control the games as two separate powers there won't be sufficient cooperation to make this work. You can bang on as many time as you like about this blueprint to success but it ain't happening here anytime soon

The big idea Dyke came up with, the "B" league, would have meant the death of lower league football, and it only "may" have had a good impact on the National team. Massive gamble, and would have destroyed a lot of history, in the hope of a bit of success in the national team.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In wee Chesney we trust

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You keep saying this!!!!!!!!! I agree that the plan they have works. What you are missing is that the FA, ultimately in charge of the England team, won't do this. Add in the involvement and self interest of the PL and this is never going to be adopted. Dyke for all his faults came up with a report and his findings were dismissed out of hand despite him showing what any footballer employed to do the role would have done, there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18.

It doesn't matter who the FA employ to write the report, the findings are already there. The problem is while the FA and PL effectively control the games as two separate powers there won't be sufficient cooperation to make this work. You can bang on as many time as you like about this blueprint to success but it ain't happening here anytime soon

Suggest you read what Dyke actually came up with - most of it was nonsense and ignored the real problems and came up with stupid suggestions like B Teams etc

 

[Deleted member 18588]

there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18.

Am I interpreting you correctly? Are you saying that up to U18 things are O.K.?

From my involvement in the game in the past I can assure you it is not.

Because of our obsession with tin pot leagues and trophies, stupid "coaches/managers" plus parents bellowing at kids to "get rid, don't take chances around your own box, knock it long" and so forth it is a wonder that any players at all emerge in this country.

The damage is often done by the age of 13 with the emphasis on pace and strength and little placed upon skill or technique.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Am I interpreting you correctly? Are you saying that up to U18 things are O.K.?

From my involvement in the game in the past I can assure you it is not.

Because of our obsession with tin pot leagues and trophies, stupid "coaches/managers" plus parents bellowing at kids to "get rid, don't take chances around your own box, knock it long" and so forth it is a wonder that any players at all emerge in this country.

The damage is often done by the age of 13 with the emphasis on pace and strength and little placed upon skill or technique.

You last line is a major problem in this country

Players like Messi , Iniesta and Xavi would have been ignored here

 

[Hacker Khan]

Suggest you read what Dyke actually came up with - most of it was nonsense and ignored the real problems and came up with stupid suggestions like B Teams etc

You mean like they do in Spain, Holland and Germany, those perennial underachievers on the world stage recently

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You mean like they do in Spain, Holland and Germany, those perennial underachievers on the world stage recently

The make up of those teams are a world apart from here and the make up of the leagues ( far less clubs ) allow it to happen in those countries - anyone can see that.

Dykes idea was to create a new league for them only with no promotion etc

If a club wants to have a B team then let them start from the bottom up - like they have done in those countries you mention as opposed to trying to create false competition

 

[fundy]

This is quite funny

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...fked-by-germany-in-the-world-cup-9594287.html

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The make up of those teams are a world apart from here and the make up of the leagues ( far less clubs ) allow it to happen in those countries - anyone can see that.

Dykes idea was to create a new league for them only with no promotion etc

If a club wants to have a B team then let them start from the bottom up - like they have done in those countries you mention as opposed to trying to create false competition

So lets get this straight. You want B teams as per Spain, Germany and others in order to get England producing world class players and then you want to hamstring the idea and making them start from the bottom (Ryman South?) and delay the process accordingly

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a need to do something but bearing in mind Dyke's plan was vetoed on most fronts as unworkable and the fact that with the FA and PL having different agendas and unlikely to co-exist in any format to make this work, the proposal to then make it even more unpallatable to clubs and authorities is a strange one

 

[Adi2Dassler]

The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse)

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, £900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over £1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So lets get this straight. You want B teams as per Spain, Germany and others in order to get England producing world class players and then you want to hamstring the idea and making them start from the bottom (Ryman South?) and delay the process accordingly

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a need to do something but bearing in mind Dyke's plan was vetoed on most fronts as unworkable and the fact that with the FA and PL having different agendas and unlikely to co-exist in any format to make this work, the proposal to then make it even more unpallatable to clubs and authorities is a strange one

Our country's game doesn't have the make up to allow B teams - I would never would want to see any big club create a B Team and then dumped straight into the conference

What needs to done is a restructure of the reserves league

That's needs to be enhanced to become a stronger league to allow clubs to develop their players without the need to send them on loan.

Dyke is a suit - he is a CEO , a businessman - he isn't a footballer and his ideas were all about business

Get a footballer in and give them the iron rod and get rid of suits and yes men

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse)

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, £900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over £1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.

Pretty fair if rather bleak summary. I agree that had the money on Wembley and St Georges been invested inside the game then development and nuturing of talent may have been accelerated even if the German blue print was never adopted. As it is, with two factions, neither of which are mutually agreeable, there will never be polarity and the plan will never move on

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Pretty fair if rather bleak summary. I agree that had the money on Wembley and St Georges been invested inside the game then development and nuturing of talent may have been accelerated even if the German blue print was never adopted. As it is, with two factions, neither of which are mutually agreeable, there will never be polarity and the plan will never move on

So if we did not have St George's Park where would the work take place, that is currently undertaken there?

Perhaps out of ignorance there seems to be an impression that it is just a training ground for the national team,

Most of our European competitors have National Centres including France, Germany Holland and Italy.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If we accept St Georges is fundamental then to the emergence and development of footballing and the coaches of the future, and that others have these types of centre of excellence, what about one national stadium and the intrinsic costs involved for the FA in the building of that. I have probably done St Georges a huge disservice and happy to concede that point

Many other nations aren't reliant on one location and surely it will only help increase interest in the national side if families were able to get to games easier than schelpping to London, in rush hours, at huge expense. Make it more a game for the people and perhaps people at grass roots will engage

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The national stadium wasn't a bad idea

The cost of it is a different matter

Wales managed to get the Arms Park sorted at a fraction of the cost - same with Croke Park and Aviva stadium

Wemberlee is a soulless stadium with no atmosphere and full of corporate facilities.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If we accept St Georges is fundamental then to the emergence and development of footballing and the coaches of the future, and that others have these types of centre of excellence, what about one national stadium and the intrinsic costs involved for the FA in the building of that. I have probably done St Georges a huge disservice and happy to concede that point

Many other nations aren't reliant on one location and surely it will only help increase interest in the national side if families were able to get to games easier than schelpping to London, in rush hours, at huge expense. Make it more a game for the people and perhaps people at grass roots will engage

As I said previously I agree 100% with you on that one Homer.

The £900 million+ spent on Wembley must count as one of the greatest wastes of money of all time. National team could travel the country and Cup Finals and play offs could have continued at the Millennium Stadium.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our country's game doesn't have the make up to allow B teams - I would never would want to see any big club create a B Team and then dumped straight into the conference

What needs to done is a restructure of the reserves league

That's needs to be enhanced to become a stronger league to allow clubs to develop their players without the need to send them on loan.

Dyke is a suit - he is a CEO , a businessman - he isn't a footballer and his ideas were all about business

Get a footballer in and give them the iron rod and get rid of suits and yes men

Meanwhile....back in the real world. You said a minute ago make these teams start at the bottom and now you don't want them in the conference! There is already a successful U18 and U21 reserve/youth team leagues and may clubs already blood younger players in the reserves.

Get a footballer in with an iron rod and get rid of the suits and yes men....Really. That's asking for the FA to be disbanded and start again. Like FIFA, too many noses in troughs and no one is going to want to walk away willingly. How do you seriously propose doing this. Give someone like Klingsman (not even English so will he really have English interest at heart) or someone else an iron rod. What makes you think they will implement such radical plans at the end of the day. Until the FA and PL run the game under one umbrella nothing will change. As others have said we're too far down the line

 

[c1973]

The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse)

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, £900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over £1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.

This.^^^

I reckon the associations (both up here and down there) should force the issue. The winner of the league can't enter the CL without FA permission, so use that as the stick to get teams in line. UEFA recognise the associations not the league. It wouldn't be easy but the status quo is bad for the game on this island and shouldn't be an option.

Wembley and Hampden, historic as they are, were huge wastes of money. Vanity projects harking back to when both countries had half decent teams. That cash should have been plowed into development.

I'd actually cut government and lottery funding (from association related areas) until they got their houses in order, deprivation of cash from these sources would be harmful if the governing bodies chose to ignore it, but would certainly focus their minds and hopefully get them away from dishing out huge prize money (England) which only goes into mediocre players pockets and get more cash funnelled into development.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Meanwhile....back in the real world. You said a minute ago make these teams start at the bottom and now you don't want them in the conference! There is already a successful U18 and U21 reserve/youth team leagues and may clubs already blood younger players in the reserves.

Do you realise how many levels below the conference there are ?

Where do you think teams like FC Wimbledon started and FC United ?

The conference is the highest level of non league football - there are a great deal amount of levels below that

And if you believe there are "successful" reserve and u21 leagues then you really don't know what is going on beyond the main squads - the reserve and younger level leagues are of a shocking standard

Get a footballer in with an iron rod and get rid of the suits and yes men....Really. That's asking for the FA to be disbanded and start again. Like FIFA, too many noses in troughs and no one is going to want to walk away willingly. How do you seriously propose doing this. Give someone like Klingsman (not even English so will he really have English interest at heart) or someone else an iron rod. What makes you think they will implement such radical plans at the end of the day. Until the FA and PL run the game under one umbrella nothing will change. As others have said we're too far down the line

Do you get paid by the FA because you fly their flag very well - I know exactly how the FA runs and I know exactly how they only look after themselves

The FA spend the whole time blaming the Prem for all the ills of the game they themselves have created - the easy option is to blame the prem league and the big clubs - it's nonsense - the FA need to look at themselves

I suggest Klinsmann who has been at the heart of all that is good with German Football and now is doing the same thing with the USA and you dismiss him straight away because he is not even English ?!? That sums it up exactly - Hodgson is English and he is the worst man possible to be in charge of the English game alongside a businessman. Typical attitude of someone in the FA

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Do you realise how many levels below the conference there are ?

Where do you think teams like FC Wimbledon started and FC United ?

The conference is the highest level of non league football - there are a great deal amount of levels below that

And if you believe there are "successful" reserve and u21 leagues then you really don't know what is going on beyond the main squads - the reserve and younger level leagues are of a shocking standard



Do you get paid by the FA because you fly their flag very well - I know exactly how the FA runs and I know exactly how they only look after themselves

The FA spend the whole time blaming the Prem for all the ills of the game they themselves have created - the easy option is to blame the prem league and the big clubs - it's nonsense - the FA need to look at themselves

I suggest Klinsmann who has been at the heart of all that is good with German Football and now is doing the same thing with the USA and you dismiss him straight away because he is not even English ?!? That sums it up exactly - Hodgson is English and he is the worst man possible to be in charge of the English game alongside a businessman. Typical attitude of someone in the FA

I've played non league and been involved with several non league clubs over the years so have a damn fine idea how the pyramid works. The question was you want these clubs to start at the bottom. Are you really expecting them to start conference or below? Thats not going to get anyone interested in playing

You know how the FA runs? Really. Are you on one of the committees? Again you're missing the point or more likely ignoring it as is your way with other threads. The point is the FA and PL may well blame each other but they aren't going away and util they work as a unified body there are too many vested interests to make the German blueprint viable.

I dismissed Klingsmann as surely you'd need an English man to solve the problem. Will a German ever really have the good of English football at heart and would they really give him this rod of iron (whatever that is)