Winter matchplay unfairness for low handicappers

[Robin Hood]

often 48-50 points from higher handicappers,

IMO if a high handicapper gets this sort of score then they deserve to win.
As they are inherently less consistent than low handicappers, then the days when it ALL comes together are few and far between.
If they score like this every week then your handicap secretary needs to get more involved.

Another quick observation - low handicappers do seem to whinge more.

ITS A GAME...............

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Our winter league works different in that the winner can never be decided until the very last game.
I have heard low hcp players moaning about it before, but at least its a way of getting out the house and getting a game with the shortened daylight hours.

 

[Twissy22]

Our winter League is always won by the low to mid HC’s - the course is the same for everyone. The low to mid will get more birdies and the mid to high will get more pars - it will balance itself out at the end of the day. I looked through loads of past results and nothing changes when it went to 90%

But the main thing is - it’s winter , it’s supposed to be just keeping the game going and fun

If you keep losing then play better - simple or just don’t enter if you think it’s unfair

This is the problem at our club. Less and less lower handicappers enter now. Most don't bother. We lose too much length on our course some courses maybe don't lose as much. Iv played better than ever today, shot a 70 today my best ever winter score and still only good enough for a half. Our winter comps have been won by 15 plus handicappers for years. I won myself when I started and was off 18 and I knew then it wasn't fair. It's fair for the rest of the year just at our course when it lose 1000 odd yards it's always higher handicappers. Probably won't enter next year.

 

[Birdie2]

As a low handicapper I'd suggest you hit it further than a high handicapper and are generally more consistent.

Statistics show that the closer you are to the hole, the lower the scoring. I'd suggest this is a leveller for you?

As a player who regularly gives shots rather than receives them, I get what you're saying but we both know if you get a high handicapper on their day you haven't got a chance. It doesn't matter how long the course is.

 

[Twissy22]

I can see the argument (a bit) if the high handicaps in question are high 20's so you may be giving a shot a hole but these two were only getting, what 9 or 10..and 4 or 5?
Still leaves plenty of holes played scratch that should give enough chances to win or at least get close.

They got 10 and 6. I think it's just our course as we lose 150 yards on some holes. One hole is down to 100 yards from 180 and stroke 10 so as long as they hit the green then you need a birdie. My question wasn't whether it was fair it's a fact at our course at present it isn't. My question was whether any ones courses do things differently. One poster said 0.75 in winter which seems fairer.

 

[upsidedown]

I know that when we go to temp greens in the Winter it will favour the higher handicappers as they can now reach in two when normally they are struggling to reach the main greens as most of our temps are 30 to 60 yards short of them also.
We've just had our first Winter running a Winter League and in researching what other clubs do from the Net it did pop up that when some courses go to more than 6 temps greens the handicap allowance would reflect this and players would less shots .

 

[CliveW]

We have winter handicaps for our winter league. 75% of normal handicap so high handicappers are reduced more than lower ones. All winter league matches are Stableford and Congu adjustments are used so things tend to even out.

 

[Homer]

Still can’t work out why all these courses are shortened in the winter - do the club just assume you aren’t capable of playing the full course when it’s cold? Wouldn’t even contemplate playing somewhere like that - stick to the links in the winter!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Still can’t work out why all these courses are shortened in the winter - do the club just assume you aren’t capable of playing the full course when it’s cold? Wouldn’t even contemplate playing somewhere like that - stick to the links in the winter!

Courses get shortened to protect areas where you are going to get a lot of footfall but don’t get much growth - especially on tees with a lot of clubs mainly using the front of the tee ( also seen it at links courses ) - they also rope off areas to reduce trolley traffic and filter people. Courses also use it to rebuild some tees or re turf them , plus major bunker or drainage work

It’s nothing to do with people not “capable” of playing in the cold to a full course.

I’m surprised you couldn’t work it out

 

[Wolf]

Just seems a little sour to me happy to play with the advantage on a longer course but not happy to give up that advantage on shorter.

Regardless of course is shorter the lower handicap should still out play the higher guy generally speaking. If they're making more pars I'd expect to make more birdies the course is the same for everyone.

Been the same for years, win our first 4 lose second 4 matches

That part of the OP suggests happy to play longer course where its all in your favour but not happy when things even out. As I said all seems a little sour to me.

Simple answer if always the same don't play in it.

 

[Crow]

How does that sit with the CONGU manual which says you must use 90%?

Sorry just read your post on another thread - I am a fully fledged member of the CONGU Police.

In the winter the course frequently plays much less than the measured course and we often have more temporary greens than allowed by CONGU so I'd guess that they're not interested.
Or maybe they will be and we'll be forced to go to 90% in which case a lot of players will drop out and the league could fade away through lack of competitors.

 

[Twissy22]

As a low handicapper I'd suggest you hit it further than a high handicapper and are generally more consistent.

Statistics show that the closer you are to the hole, the lower the scoring. I'd suggest this is a leveller for you?

As a player who regularly gives shots rather than receives them, I get what you're saying but we both know if you get a high handicapper on their day you haven't got a chance. It doesn't matter how long the course is.

Yeah I get that, when they are on you have no chance.

Just seems a little sour to me happy to play with the advantage on a longer course but not happy to give up that advantage on shorter.

Regardless of course is shorter the lower handicap should still out play the higher guy generally speaking. If they're making more pars I'd expect to make more birdies the course is the same for everyone.



That part of the OP suggests happy to play longer course where its all in your favour but not happy when things even out. As I said all seems a little sour to me.

Simple answer if always the same don't play in it.

Im not sour. I have no problem with handicapping system. What do you mean when things are not in my favour? You mean when it's just normal golf on normal course ie fair contest. That's what handicap is for to even things out. Shortening the course is not evening things out it's swinging it in higher handicappers favour, at our course that's why no low handicappers enter winter league. My question was not about whether it's fair or not. It's a fact it's not fair on low handicappers at our course when shortened. My question was what other courses do to address this. My mates a massive bandit off 11 and he lost 6 and 5 against 16 and 18 handicappers today.he said he played well too.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

If it’s been the same for years and you keep on entering you must then know what the likely outcome will be. Just don’t enter or enjoy the chance of playing, and look forward to the spring and summer

This every time, we played against a couple of higher handicaps, Dan was giving 18 shots, we got out arses kicked as they just hit irons of every tee as it was a short course that day 😂

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yeah I get that, when they are on you have no chance.

Im not sour. I have no problem with handicapping system. What do you mean when things are not in my favour? You mean when it's just normal golf on normal course ie fair contest. That's what handicap is for to even things out. Shortening the course is not evening things out it's swinging it in higher handicappers favour, at our course that's why no low handicappers enter winter league. My question was not about whether it's fair or not. It's a fact it's not fair on low handicappers at our course when shortened. My question was what other courses do to address this. My mates a massive bandit off 11 and he lost 6 and 5 against 16 and 18 handicappers today.he said he played well too.

But why is 90% fair on a full length course? High handicappers lose way more shots than the low handicapper.

 

[Twissy22]

Still can’t work out why all these courses are shortened in the winter - do the club just assume you aren’t capable of playing the full course when it’s cold? Wouldn’t even contemplate playing somewhere like that - stick to the links in the winter!

Yeah it sucks. We have lots of revines and its to protect the tee boxes. It's a great course but when it's accross the revines it's taking a big danger and alot of yards off the course.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah I get that, when they are on you have no chance.

Im not sour. I have no problem with handicapping system. What do you mean when things are not in my favour? You mean when it's just normal golf on normal course ie fair contest. That's what handicap is for to even things out. Shortening the course is not evening things out it's swinging it in higher handicappers favour, at our course that's why no low handicappers enter winter league. My question was not about whether it's fair or not. It's a fact it's not fair on low handicappers at our course when shortened. My question was what other courses do to address this. My mates a massive bandit off 11 and he lost 6 and 5 against 16 and 18 handicappers today.he said he played well too.

Using the example you posted earlier, "450yds reduced to 300yds."

The low handicapper is unlikely to birdie the 450yd hole, and if he does he almost always wins the hole. On the 300yd hole the low handicapper stands a far better chance of a birdie, and getting one will win the hole occasionally but will almost alway guarantee at least a half.

But do the usual 300yd par 4's reduce to long par 3's? No they won't. They'll reduce down and give the low handicapper even more chances of birdies. And with the best will in the world its rare to see a high handicapper posting 3 or 4 birdies.

If the 5 handicapper plays off 4, and has a good game he'll be somewhere around level par. The 20 handicapper plays off 18, and has to play to 14 for a half. He has to play to 6 under handicap to get a half.

I've been there. I've given lots of shots on a short course, and if I was on my game I've won more than I've lost. Its not just about hitting good shots, its about putting the pressure on the high handicapper and seeing if they've got the balls for the battle. I could probably count on the fingers of one foot the amount of times I've been turned over - it just doesn't happen that often.

Sorry but it just comes across as sour grapes.

 

[MendieGK]

Firstly, imagine being a truly low handicap. Then it is very hard to compete.

Our 9th hole is a par 5 under 400yds at the moment. It actually averaged under par in our sford yesterday!!!

OP - Which course are you a member at?

I don’t enter our winter league pairs anymore. It’s best 2 scores across 6 weeks (12 possible rounds), and the leaders were on 105pts!!

 

[backwoodsman]

Am afraid I still don't accept it being down to a shortened course favouring the high player. High(er) handicaps are not just down to how far a player can hit the ball. Those who have higher handicaps tend to hit many more hooks, slices, thins, duffs etc than do low handicappers. If a high handicapper can play more conservatively on a shorter course, then so too can the low handicapper, and presumably with much greater accuracy/benefit?

 

[Homer]

Courses get shortened to protect areas where you are going to get a lot of footfall but don’t get much growth - especially on tees with a lot of clubs mainly using the front of the tee ( also seen it at links courses ) - they also rope off areas to reduce trolley traffic and filter people. Courses also use it to rebuild some tees or re turf them , plus major bunker or drainage work

It’s nothing to do with people not “capable” of playing in the cold to a full course.

I’m surprised you couldn’t work it out

Nothing like that at the courses I play. Full length despite some course works - just play around, over or through it!

Go find a better alternative would be my take.

 

[MendieGK]

Go find a better alternative would be my take.

What. Ridiculous statement