Winter matchplay unfairness for low handicappers

[Twissy22]

We play doubles matchplay full course 0.9 difference. We do well for first 4 or 5 matches when the course is still full length. Then when the course is shortened in January we find it near impossible to win a match against the higher handicappers. Such an advantage for them. Often I birdie a shot hole and still lose or at best get a half. We played 2 under par today against 16 and 20 handicapper and still only managed a half. We both play off 9 and both probably slightly better than 9 both been down to 7 at one point. Been the same for years, win our first 4 lose second 4 matches. I think if the course is shortened should be 0.75 or maybe less 0.4 or 0.5. it's the same with stablefords, often 48-50 points from higher handicappers, playing off single figures it's near impossible to get that many points would need to be 7 or 8 under par. Does anyone club do anything to reduce this massive unfairness Inthe handicapping?

 

[anotherdouble]

If it’s been the same for years and you keep on entering you must then know what the likely outcome will be. Just don’t enter or enjoy the chance of playing, and look forward to the spring and summer

 

[Crow]

Our 4BBB matchplay Winter League is played off 3/4, we seem to get a good spread of handicap winners over the years.

 

[Hobbit]

I wonder if the higher handicappers think the bias before Christmas is unfair?

 

[Twissy22]

I wonder if the higher handicappers think the bias before Christmas is unfair?

There is no unfairness before though, same as summer and rest of year. Games are tight and they need thier shots, our winter league winners tend to be high handicappers some holes are over 100 yards shorter. Alot of our higher handicappers have great short games as long course so when it's short they are deadly and tend to par or birdie all there shot holes

 

[backwoodsman]

Yawn ....

Another low handicapper who can't accept being beaten in a handicap match - especially when the long term statistics show that low handicappers win more matches than they lose even off 90% - and that the handicap difference should in fact be 100%

And if the OP's club has regular scores at 48 - 50 points, then I'd suggest the problem is bandits rather than handicap difference.

 

[Twissy22]

If it’s been the same for years and you keep on entering you must then know what the likely outcome will be. Just don’t enter or enjoy the chance of playing, and look forward to the spring and summer

Yeah we still enjoy it but there is definitely a massive advantage for the higher handicappers when it's shortened, 3/4 would seem fairer like someone said thier club does. Its become alot worse since 0.9 rule and used to be max 18. I don't mind this in the summer or full length but needs to be addressed for shortened course to even things up, already alot of low handicappers don't enter so it's going to become a high handicappers event only so what's the point in practicing and getting handicap down. I wasn't going to bother this year but does keep things competitive and keeps swing going through winter.

 

[Papas1982]

There is no unfairness before though, same as summer and rest of year. Games are tight and they need thier shots, our winter league winners tend to be high handicappers some holes are over 100 yards shorter. Alot of our higher handicappers have great short games as long course so when it's short they are deadly and tend to par or birdie all there shot holes

You literally said you win all four before winter rules and then lose 4 during winter.

How does either of those scenarios differ other than one giving you the results you like and one not?

 

[Twissy22]

Yawn ....

Another low handicapper who can't accept being beaten in a handicap match - especially when the long term statistics show that low handicappers win more matches than they lose even off 90% - and that the handicap difference should in fact be 100%

And if the OP's club has regular scores at 48 - 50 points, then I'd suggest the problem is bandits rather than handicap difference.

Only 48-50 in comps when course is shortened. IV no problem getting beaten and we do have many tight games in summer but winter games are normally just high handicappers stuffing low handicappers, most low handicappers don't even enter winter league anymore.

 

[garyinderry]

What is the length of the course?

On short courses the high men rule in winter.

 

[Twissy22]

You literally said you win all four before winter rules and then lose 4 during winter.

How does either of those scenarios differ other than one giving you the results you like and one not?

We don't always win all four but the games are tight, what advantage are we getting, it's just normal matchplay. When shortened higher handicappers clean winning 6 and 5 etc

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yeah we still enjoy it but there is definitely a massive advantage for the higher handicappers when it's shortened, 3/4 would seem fairer like someone said thier club does. Its become alot worse since 0.9 rule and used to be max 18. I don't mind this in the summer or full length but needs to be addressed for shortened course to even things up, already alot of low handicappers don't enter so it's going to become a high handicappers event only so what's the point in practicing and getting handicap down. I wasn't going to bother this year but does keep things competitive and keeps swing going through winter.

Our Winter League was won today with one round of matches left, handicaps 5 & 9. Handicaps for the Winter League go all the way to 28.
We/I have no issues as over the League season it tends to balance out.

 

[Twissy22]

What is the length of the course?

On short courses the high men rule in winter.

It's par 70 about 7000 but then in January it's shortened to maybe 6000 or less some holes 150 yards shorter hence the disadvantage as less distance for them to need a shot

 

[garyinderry]

Well there you go. 7000 is long. Under 6000 isn't and will leave plenty of handy holes for those with a pile of shots.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Our winter League is always won by the low to mid HC’s - the course is the same for everyone. The low to mid will get more birdies and the mid to high will get more pars - it will balance itself out at the end of the day. I looked through loads of past results and nothing changes when it went to 90%

But the main thing is - it’s winter , it’s supposed to be just keeping the game going and fun

If you keep losing then play better - simple or just don’t enter if you think it’s unfair

 

[Imurg]

I can see the argument (a bit) if the high handicaps in question are high 20's so you may be giving a shot a hole but these two were only getting, what 9 or 10..and 4 or 5?
Still leaves plenty of holes played scratch that should give enough chances to win or at least get close.

 

[Twissy22]

Our Winter League was won today with one round of matches left, handicaps 5 & 9. Handicaps for the Winter League go all the way to 28.
We/I have no issues as over the League season it tends to balance out.

How shortened is your course in winter? Some of our holes go from 450 to 300

 

[Papas1982]

We don't always win all four but the games are tight, what advantage are we getting, it's just normal matchplay. When shortened higher handicappers clean winning 6 and 5 etc

You’re changing your story now. Read the op. You said it’s always the same. You win four and then lose four. Whether the games are close or not is irrelevant in that scenario.

 

[rosecott]

Our 4BBB matchplay Winter League is played off 3/4, we seem to get a good spread of handicap winners over the years.

How does that sit with the CONGU manual which says you must use 90%?

Sorry just read your post on another thread - I am a fully fledged member of the CONGU Police.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

How shortened is your course in winter? Some of our holes go from 450 to 300

Our course drops 400yds in Winter, plus we have to tee up on the fairways, so even the short hitters can go Driver, Driver to some par 4’s and all par 5’s.

Did you argue it should be 100% difference prior to winter?