Windrush Scandal

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hold up Hogy! West Indian Brexit voters???

1) You've spent 2 years telling us all Leaver Voters are all white, Millwall Skinheads! (satire, in case you miss it)

2) West Indians??? My mate's granddad came from Jamaica. Him and his dad are from Pompey. He'd rip your head off for calling him a West Indian!

Bloomin racists!

Really? - point to where I have ever said or even implied this

So which collective noun would you rather I used to describe the collection of Caribbean islands from where all of those who came here in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Tell me and I'll use it.

 

[IanM]

Hold up Hogy! West Indian Brexit voters???

1) You've spent 2 years telling us all Leaver Voters are all white, Millwall Skinheads! (satire, in case you miss it)

...and you complained in the Art 50 Thread when I suggested you don't read other posts properly

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So which collective noun would you rather I used to describe the collection of Caribbean islands from where all of those who came here in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Tell me and I'll use it.

I think Caribbean is the answer, not trying to be smart by the way. West Indies is pretty much only used for cricket purposes. Each island is very much independent and the rivalry is sharp.

 

[IanM]

So which collective noun would you rather I used to describe the collection of Caribbean islands from where all of those who came here in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Tell me and I'll use it.

Um, he is ENGLISH!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I can't believe this post has degenerated into mild insults and petty point scoring, that's so unusual for this forum...




Wait a minute though, is this post petty point scoring as well? It's so confusing nowadays.

 

[Blue in Munich]

May saying that the decision was made under a Labour govt really was point scoring of the worst kind. Absolutely pathetic.

The destruction of the cards is not the issue here, it's the new rules May introduced in 2014 saying if you can't prove you belong here, you're getting kicked out that has caused this problem. Applying these rules to folk who have lived here and paid taxes for 50 years or more is an absolute disgrace.

Not that simple I believe. The new rules the then Home Secretary introduced in 2014 to protect the country from illegal immigrants aren't an issue if people can prove a right of residency. The cards were that proof. Therefore their destruction very much is the issue for the Windrush immigrants.

Now if you can prove that as Home Secretary Mrs May knew about the destruction of the cards and introduced the rules 2014 to clear the Windrush generation out then I'll agree she and her rules are the issue. However I suspect we both realise that the rules made in 2014 for the good of the country have unfortunately, and not for the first time, caught out people they were never intended to catch.

As has been pointed out, the decision to destroy them was taken by an independent body.

 

[rudebhoy]

Not that simple I believe. The new rules the then Home Secretary introduced in 2014 to protect the country from illegal immigrants aren't an issue if people can prove a right of residency. The cards were that proof. Therefore their destruction very much is the issue for the Windrush immigrants.

Now if you can prove that as Home Secretary Mrs May knew about the destruction of the cards and introduced the rules 2014 to clear the Windrush generation out then I'll agree she and her rules are the issue. However I suspect we both realise that the rules made in 2014 for the good of the country have unfortunately, and not for the first time, caught out people they were never intended to catch.

As has been pointed out, the decision to destroy them was taken by an independent body.

If the cards were really that important, do you think anyone in their right mind would have ordered their destruction? Back in 2009/2010, they were seen as cultural artefacts at best, taking up space which could be used for other purposes. No-one then knew that 4 years later, Mat would introduce legislation which put the onus on the individual to produce documentation to prove they had the right to live here.

The real question that should be getting asked is why the Windrush generation were targeted, not who decided to bin some ancient cards 4 years before anyone thought they might be useful.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and you complained in the Art 50 Thread when I suggested you don't read other posts properly

OK - you got me there...I thought it was the Millwall Skinheads that was the satirical bit

 

[SocketRocket]

May saying that the decision was made under a Labour govt really was point scoring of the worst kind. Absolutely pathetic.

The destruction of the cards is not the issue here, it's the new rules May introduced in 2014 saying if you can't prove you belong here, you're getting kicked out that has caused this problem. Applying these rules to folk who have lived here and paid taxes for 50 years or more is an absolute disgrace.

Corbyn suggesting that the Tories destroyed the cards was OK then?

 

[Blue in Munich]

If the cards were really that important, do you think anyone in their right mind would have ordered their destruction? Back in 2009/2010, they were seen as cultural artefacts at best, taking up space which could be used for other purposes. No-one then knew that 4 years later, Mat would introduce legislation which put the onus on the individual to produce documentation to prove they had the right to live here.

The real question that should be getting asked is why the Windrush generation were targeted, not who decided to bin some ancient cards 4 years before anyone thought they might be useful.

Targeted; that's a bit strong, unless of course you've got evidence of this campaign of targeting?

 

[Blue in Munich]

If the cards were really that important, do you think anyone in their right mind would have ordered their destruction? Back in 2009/2010, they were seen as cultural artefacts at best, taking up space which could be used for other purposes. No-one then knew that 4 years later, Mat would introduce legislation which put the onus on the individual to produce documentation to prove they had the right to live here.

The real question that should be getting asked is why the Windrush generation were targeted, not who decided to bin some ancient cards 4 years before anyone thought they might be useful.

The Windrush sailed in 1948. The cards were destroyed in 2010. 62 years later. Doesn't seem that much of stretch to think that 62 years later there wouldn't be some proof other than an ancient landing card that the immigrants were entitled to be here.

 

[IanM]

The Windrush sailed in 1948. The cards were destroyed in 2010. 62 years later. Doesn't seem that much of stretch to think that 62 years later there wouldn't be some proof other than an ancient landing card that the immigrants were entitled to be here.

If only the tech existed to scan and store digitally :mmm:

 

[Blue in Munich]

If only the tech existed to scan and store digitally :mmm:

If only someone had realised the potential importance; like the staff that warned the management perhaps?

 

[Taz]

Spot on as usual :

https://twitter.com/bbcthisweek/status/987101739500191745

 

[Hacker Khan]

The fact that the cards were destroyed is not really the main issue, but I would suggest the fact that as a society we were prepared to let this kind of thing (as in British citizens being threatened with deportation, people losing their jobs etc) happen is. How did we get to this, why did we get to this, what is the underlying culture that allows this thing to happen, how can we prevent us repeating the same mistakes. I'd suggest those are the issues that us a society should be really examining, not some administrative decision made several years ago.

 

[MegaSteve]

The fact that the cards were destroyed is not really the main issue, but I would suggest the fact that as a society we were prepared to let this kind of thing (as in British citizens being threatened with deportation, people losing their jobs etc) happen is. How did we get to this, why did we get to this, what is the underlying culture that allows this thing to happen, how can we prevent us repeating the same mistakes. I'd suggest those are the issues that us a society should be really examining, not some administrative decision made several years ago.

We fell into the trap of prioritising the 'needs' of 'new friends'...
Finding it too easy to put our 'old friends' on ignore...

 

[USER1999]

I might be a bit thick on this, but. Surely someone who has been here for 60 years, has a passport, or a NI number, or an NHS number. Surely they have been paying tax, for x years. Or been on benefits, for x years. Is none of that record enough? Does it really rely on a piece of cardboard from 60 years ago?

 

[USER1999]

Afterall, you can play cricket, rugby, footy, run for England after about 3 years here.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I might be a bit thick on this, but. Surely someone who has been here for 60 years, has a passport, or a NI number, or an NHS number. Surely they have been paying tax, for x years. Or been on benefits, for x years. Is none of that record enough? Does it really rely on a piece of cardboard from 60 years ago?

My wife did ask this the other day. Seems very odd that a tatty old landing card has more standing.

 

[IanM]

My wife did ask this the other day. Seems very odd that a tatty old landing card has more standing.

I am sure it doesnt, but that messes up the story.