Windrush Scandal

[Deleted member 18588]

Apparently this outrageous situation has existed since at least the 1980's and yet, despite there having been five other PM's in that time (including two Labour) it's all down to Mrs May.

Perhaps I am unusual in being more interested in the solution rather than trying to make some Party political point.

 

[doublebogey7]

I think they most certainly do, I was sent a lovely photo of students in a college asking voters/ students to register in there college town so they can vote. Then they can travel back to there home address and vote again. Done with a "Vote Labour" poster in the background. If it is open to abuse, it needs changing.

Why would you not want an ID card anyway?

Please explain how requiring ID at polling stations will prevent students or anyone else from registering twice. In answer to you second question because in the UK we are not required to hold any form of ID so will disenfrahise those that have a right to vote but have no ID

 

[Hacker Khan]

Apparently this outrageous situation has existed since at least the 1980's and yet, despite there having been five other PM's in that time (including two Labour) it's all down to Mrs May.

Perhaps I am unusual in being more interested in the solution rather than trying to make some Party political point.

Pretty sure the changes in the immigration law that led to this happened in 2012. Which by my maths is not 'at least the 1980s'.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think they most certainly do, I was sent a lovely photo of students in a college asking voters/ students to register in there college town so they can vote. Then they can travel back to there home address and vote again. Done with a "Vote Labour" poster in the background. If it is open to abuse, it needs changing.

Why would you not want an ID card anyway?

Because, at a time when our public services are starved of money, it would cost billions, if people really wanted to they could forge one anyway plus I have a drivers license, passport, NI number etc etc already.

So why bother spending vast amounts of money we do not have introducing them for no specific reason?

 

[Old Skier]

In answer to you second question because in the UK we are not required to hold any form of ID

I presume you are familiar with the not so new driving license. The majority of countries do have ID cards yet there seem to be some paranoia in this country against them.

I carried on for over 22 years and found them very handy at times.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I presume you are familiar with the not so new driving license. The majority of countries do have ID cards yet there seem to be some paranoia in this country against them.

I carried on for over 22 years and found them very handy at times.

So why spend billions we do not have on an ID card if driving licenses do the job in a majority of cases?

 

[SocketRocket]

So why spend billions we do not have on an ID card if driving licenses do the job in a majority of cases?

Errr! Some people don't drive, some are not old enough to drive and some are banned from Driving.

 

[Old Skier]

So why spend billions we do not have on an ID card if driving licenses do the job in a majority of cases?

Im not arguing in favor or against, I just don't understand (unless it's financial) some people's paranoia on the subject.

 

[doublebogey7]

I presume you are familiar with the not so new driving license. The majority of countries do have ID cards yet there seem to be some paranoia in this country against them.

I carried on for over 22 years and found them very handy at times.

The driving licence is not a form of ID but a document that proves your entitlement to drive.
I am not in principle against the issuing of ID cards to all citizens. But I am against the requirment to prove ID in order to vote, in a country that doesn't have a mandatory form of ID.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Pretty sure the changes in the immigration law that led to this happened in 2012. Which by my maths is not 'at least the 1980s'.

Then perhaps you can explain that to the man who has found himself stuck in Trinidad since 1983.

Originally came to UK in 1950's as a child returned to Trinidad for a holiday but was refused re-entry to this country as he could not prove he had originally entered legally.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Pretty sure the changes in the immigration law that led to this happened in 2012. Which by my maths is not 'at least the 1980s'.

What are the changes that have been made to the immigration laws and to which you refer?

As far as I can see it has been a question of implementing the existing legislation.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The driving licence is not a form of ID but a document that proves your entitlement to drive.
I am not in principle against the issuing of ID cards to all citizens. But I am against the requirment to prove ID in order to vote, in a country that doesn't have a mandatory form of ID.

Your being the pertinent point; your right, not anybody else's. Hence the licence identifies you, so that it is understood who has that entitlement.

 

[ger147]

Rudd is gone...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Im not arguing in favor or against, I just don't understand (unless it's financial) some people's paranoia on the subject.

Because in this country the authorities have never had the right to stop us in the street and ask us to prove who we are. Bring in an ID card and it may well be compulsory to carry it and if it is compulsory to carry it then the authorities would have the right to stop us and ask us to provide it on request. And if you cannot do that are you someone who has simply forgotten to bring it with you or are you an illegal immigrant who does not have one. I guess what happens then depends...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What are the changes that have been made to the immigration laws and to which you refer?

As far as I can see it has been a question of implementing the existing legislation.

Well there was this from 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24469584

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Rudd is gone...

May has thrown her under a bus.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Well there was this from 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24469584

But this did not pertain to those like the Windrush Generation who are here legally and whose citizenship rights should not be questioned.

Throughout this whole debate has become clouded by confusing a Government's rightful attempt to deal with illegal immigration and a truly terrible administrative cock-up that dragged innocent people into question.

I am, of course, presuming that there are none on here who do not think it is the responsibility of the Government to make every effort to deal with illegal immigration.

 

[User62651]

May has thrown her under a bus.

Bit sorry for her, seemed like a capable minister and a moderate Tory too. Javid for HS apparently. Could argue Boris has made more cock ups than Rudd but he seems untouchable. Party to lurch even further right probably.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But this did not pertain to those like the Windrush Generation who are here legally and whose citizenship rights should not be questioned.

Throughout this whole debate has become clouded by confusing a Government's rightful attempt to deal with illegal immigration and a truly terrible administrative cock-up that dragged innocent people into question.

I am, of course, presuming that there are none on here who do not think it is the responsibility of the Government to make every effort to deal with illegal immigration.

Yes - the Windrush Generation of Caribbean immigrants are here legally - but if I cannot provide the required documentation then as the default position set out is that I am guilty of being an illegal immigrant until I prove myself innocent of that charge, then I am in trouble. But vigorous prosecution and hardening of that policy was May's idea - to create the 'hostile environment' that would encourage illegal immigrants to take themselves off home - we end up with the scandalous mess that we now have.

And when we take that mentality and approach forward when 'hunting down' illegal immigrants from the EU27 - and asking those from the EU27 who have been in the UK for goodness knows how long - decades for some - to prove their right to be here? It is disgusting what is happening to this country in our treatment of individuals - when we are by tradition, history and nature a welcoming ad accommodating country. No longer. In respect of immigration we are becoming a resentful, suspicious and rather unpleasant country.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes - the Windrush Generation of Caribbean immigrants are here legally - but if I cannot provide the required documentation then as the default position set out is that I am guilty of being an illegal immigrant until I prove myself innocent of that charge, then I am in trouble.

So are you proposing all illegal immigrants should be considered "legal" until the authorities prove otherwise?

And what should be done in the meantime
with those who are under suspicion?

Will they be kept in detention or should they be allowed to disappear back into society?

Not an easy one!