Why is this not a penalty? US Open 2022

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Should Harman received a penalty for the situation he was involved in?


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Deleted member 25172

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I believe that there is a referee with every group at the US Open (as there is at The Open Championship). He or she would have had a better view of the actions than those at home!

Of course. But as a rules officionado don’t you find it even just a little bit suspicious/strange/weird/[insert whatever word you’d like] seeing the situation on tv?
 

clubchamp98

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There are certain types of grass that are very soft in the USA.
Especially by the look of that where it’s blades are straight up in the air.
Putting your club on it can look like your pushing it down but it just folds underneath the weight of the club.
It didn’t look good on TV and I wouldn’t be happy if my op in matchplay did that ,but the ref on the course is the man to call it. Imo.
 

Swango1980

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I believe that there is a referee with every group at the US Open (as there is at The Open Championship). He or she would have had a better view of the actions than those at home!
Are you saying the ref gets on all fours, so that they can get a close up view of every shot that each player plays in the group? Thus having a better view than a close up video, including slow motion replays? I am impressed with their dedication :)
 

Steven Rules

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I believe that there is a referee with every group at the US Open (as there is at The Open Championship). He or she would have had a better view of the actions than those at home!

It is highly unlikely that the referee assigned to that group would have had a better view than us sitting at home watching repeated loops of a high definition slow motion replay. In events like this the rules official's main purpose is to be close at hand (but a discreet distance away) in case players have a question or need assistance with the rules.

It didn’t look good on TV and I wouldn’t be happy if my op in matchplay did that ,but the ref on the course is the man to call it. Imo.

The referee assigned to the group is not necessarily the person to call it. The player has the primary responsibility for recognising when he or she has breached a rule and applying penalties accordingly.

In any case, this quickly escalated beyond the referee assigned to that group. I understand the USGA did take a look at it and they have deemed there was no wrongdoing here and therefore no penalty.

The two key questions here are:

* Did he press the club down more than lightly?

* Did his actions improve the conditions affecting the stroke?

If the answer to either is 'no' then there is no penalty. The USGA obviously determined 'no' to at least one of the questions.
 
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It is highly unlikely that the referee assigned to that group would have had a better view than us sitting at home watching repeated loops of a high definition slow motion replay. In events like this the rules official's main purpose is to be close at hand (but a discreet distance away) in case players have a question or need assistance with the rules.



The referee assigned to the group is not necessarily the person to call it. The player has the primary responsibility for recognising when he or she has breached a rule and applying penalties accordingly.

In any case, this quickly escalated beyond the referee assigned to that group. I understand the USGA did take a look at it and they have deemed there was no wrongdoing here and therefore no penalty.

The two key questions here are:

* Did he press the club down more than lightly?

* Did his actions improve the conditions affecting the stroke?

If the answer to either is 'no' then there is no penalty. The USGA obviously determined 'no' to at least one of the questions.

What would your answers to those questions have been? Just out of interest.

Edit: I’ve added a poll to the thread to see the general view here (despite the decision from the USGA).
 

Steven Rules

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What would your answers to those questions have been? Just out of interest.
A1: Doubtful/uncertain/borderline/not sure. (In the video we can only see the bottom half of the club. We can't see the player’s hands or upper body to get a conclusive idea of the amount of proactive pressing - if any - involved. Nor do we armchair experts at home know how much natural 'give' there is in the grass or how 'soft' it is.)

A2: Yes.
 

clubchamp98

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A1: Doubtful/uncertain/borderline/not sure. (In the video we can only see the bottom half of the club. We can't see the player’s hands or upper body to get a conclusive idea of the amount of proactive pressing - if any - involved. Nor do we armchair experts at home know how much natural 'give' there is in the grass or how 'soft' it is.)

A2: Yes.
That’s why the ref on the ground and the other players are in the best position imo.
They can see the whole incident not just selected video.
And they would know how much the grass gives.

Out of interest how was this flagged up was it the TV footage?
 
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That’s why the ref on the ground and the other players are in the best position imo.
They can see the whole incident not just selected video.
And they would know how much the grass gives.

Out of interest how was this flagged up was it the TV footage?

I haven’t seen that there’s been anything official at all that it was looked at tbh. Just know that when seeing it live It looked dodgy and I sent it around to a few others. Then about 5-10 min later in the live coverage they went back to the situation and the pundits were talking about it saying that the USGA probably need to have a look at that. Which I’m sure they did, but yeah, I haven’t read anything official that they’ve actually reviewed it.
 

Steven Rules

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