Why is this not a penalty? US Open 2022

[Deleted member 25172]

From US Open yesterday. Brian Harman sets up for his shot, pressing down the club in the grass behind the ball and it moves. Instinctively I thought it was a penalty, but apparently not.

Right or wrong?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1537907434974457867

 

[Colin L]

It looks as if the ball returned to its original position in which case it has not "moved" in terms of the rules. See the Definition of moved which includes this:
If the ball only wobbles (sometimes referred to as oscillating) and stays on or returns to its original spot, the ball has not moved.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Thanks Colin!

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Sorry getting back on this again, but could there be an argument that it’s a penalty for him pushing the grass down to improve his lie though? To me it doesn’t look like he’s grounding the club lightly, but several times intentionally is pushing the club down in the grass trying to get a better swing at it.

 

[Voyager EMH]

My opinion is that he has pressed down and not grounded the club "lightly". Very blatantly pressing down three times. He is guilty of improving his lie. General penalty.

 

[Foxholer]

My opinion is that he has pressed down and not grounded the club "lightly". Very blatantly pressing down three times. He is guilty of improving his lie. General penalty.

Not a penalty imo. Ball didn't 'move', though it did wobble, and no sign of 'pressing down' to me. Ball certainly sits up on whichever type of grass they've used around greens.

 

[Imurg]

I think it should be a penalty just because it's Brian Harmon....he's got that sort of face..

 

[Crow]

If it had been Patrick Reed instead of Brian Harman improving his lie then the whole internet golfing community would be baying for his blood.

 

[wjemather]

Blatantly pressing his club down behind the ball and improving his lie. Happens all the time at all levels of the game and I can't remember ever having seen it called for what it is.

 

[Ethan]

If it had been Patrick Reed instead of Brian Harman improving his lie then the whole internet golfing community would be baying for his blood.

Reed is more blatant but still gets away with pretty of them.

I think that Harman came close to a penalty but not quite there.

 

[salfordlad]

Blatantly pressing his club down behind the ball and improving his lie. Happens all the time at all levels of the game and I can't remember ever having seen it called for what it is.

I agree it looked like blatant pressing down of the grass behind the ball, but, IMO, the real time view, even with the zoom lens, suggested there was no improvement in the lie therefore no penalty. The players have been round the course a number of times, they have a good idea what they can and cannot do based on the playing experience.
The Twittersphere was all about what the player did, not what the outcomes were. The key rules point is intent has no role in the application of Rule 8.1, it is only about outcome.

 

[Steven Rules]

I agree it looked like blatant pressing down of the grass behind the ball, but, IMO, the real time view, even with the zoom lens, suggested there was no improvement in the lie therefore no penalty.

I think I am in the 'borderline' camp rather than the 'blatant' camp.

Also I agree there was no improvement to the lie but, for those in the 'blatant' camp, might there have been an improvement to the area of intended swing? You can see each time he lifts the club - especially the final lift before he makes the stroke - that the second cut of rough behind the ball is flattened. Penalty or not boils down to whether he was grounding the club lightly or pressing the club down more than lightly.

Interpretation.1b/1. Meaning of “Ground the Club Lightly”
Rule 8.1b allows a player to ground the club lightly directly in front of or behind the ball, even if that improves his or her lie or area of intended swing.
"Ground the club lightly" means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.
But the player gets the penalty under Rule 8.1a if he or she improves the lie or area of intended swing by pressing the club down more than lightly.

 

[wjemather]

I agree it looked like blatant pressing down of the grass behind the ball, but, IMO, the real time view, even with the zoom lens, suggested there was no improvement in the lie therefore no penalty. The players have been round the course a number of times, they have a good idea what they can and cannot do based on the playing experience.
The Twittersphere was all about what the player did, not what the outcomes were. The key rules point is intent has no role in the application of Rule 8.1, it is only about outcome.

For me, it only takes one blade of grass to remain out of it's original position by more than would be caused by lightly resting the club, and I think it's unreasonable to say that wouldn't be the case, then either the lie or area of intended swing (or both) has been improved.

 

[Crow]

I think I am in the 'borderline' camp rather than the 'blatant' camp.

Also I agree there was no improvement to the lie but, for those in the 'blatant' camp, might there have been an improvement to the area of intended swing? You can see each time he lifts the club - especially the final lift before he makes the stroke - that the second cut of rough behind the ball is flattened. Penalty or not boils down to whether he was grounding the club lightly or pressing the club down more than lightly.

Interpretation.1b/1. Meaning of “Ground the Club Lightly”
Rule 8.1b allows a player to ground the club lightly directly in front of or behind the ball, even if that improves his or her lie or area of intended swing.
"Ground the club lightly" means allowing the weight of the club to be supported by the grass, soil, sand or other material on or above the ground surface.
But the player gets the penalty under Rule 8.1a if he or she improves the lie or area of intended swing by pressing the club down more than lightly.

IMHO the player has improved his area if intended swing because the club is now on a lower plane which is more suited to getting the leading edge under the ball, whereas if the club had only been lightly grounded the leading edge would be more level with the equator of the ball and would need to be swung in lower than it was at address.

All marginal and it's what players have consistently done for years, but this is the US Open. It's difficult to call out now but they should start to tighten up on this sort of thing, maybe reading the riot act at the start of the next season.

 

[Steven Rules]

For me, it only takes one blade of grass to remain out of it's original position by more than would be caused by lightly resting the club......

I think it takes more than one blade of grass in this situation.

There was an example in old Decision 13-2/0.5 where a player knocks down several leaves from a tree with a practice swing but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected. If we substitute a 'leaf' for a 'blade of grass', a single blade of grass in that thick rough will not materially affect the area of intended swing.

Decision 13-2/0.5 has been mapped into the new rules although that specific example doesn't appear in the new rules or interpretations.

 

[Swango1980]

I'd imagine if a club golfer did that sort of thing, it wouldn't be too long before others start brandishing them a cheat.

Regardless of his intention, I was shocked. It was clear the ball was wobbling all over the place, despite staying on its spot. Of course it would, as it was resting on the thick grass behind it. If it was me, I'd be terrified that the ball might have actually wobbled off its spot, let alone the accusations of flattening the grass behind the ball. It is a very tough shot, with pros sometimes using blade of club, putting a wood or using toe of putter. All inventive ideas. Clearly Harmon doesn't need to do that as he feels he can just press his club behind ball, flatten grass a little, but importantly get the feeling if exactly the point he wants to bring his club through impact.

To me, it is cheating. Certainly he wasn't lightly placing his club on grass. But I guess it is one that referees would not pull anyone up on, so long as ball stays on spot. I wonder what evidence they'd need for a player pressing club into grass?

 

[rulie]

I'd imagine if a club golfer did that sort of thing, it wouldn't be too long before others start brandishing them a cheat.

Regardless of his intention, I was shocked. It was clear the ball was wobbling all over the place, despite staying on its spot. Of course it would, as it was resting on the thick grass behind it. If it was me, I'd be terrified that the ball might have actually wobbled off its spot, let alone the accusations of flattening the grass behind the ball. It is a very tough shot, with pros sometimes using blade of club, putting a wood or using toe of putter. All inventive ideas. Clearly Harmon doesn't need to do that as he feels he can just press his club behind ball, flatten grass a little, but importantly get the feeling if exactly the point he wants to bring his club through impact.

To me, it is cheating. Certainly he wasn't lightly placing his club on grass. But I guess it is one that referees would not pull anyone up on, so long as ball stays on spot. I wonder what evidence they'd need for a player pressing club into grass?

It's either a breach of the Rules or it's not, but a simple breach of the Rules and incurring a penalty doesn't escalate to cheating.

 

[salfordlad]

Also I agree there was no improvement to the lie but, for those in the 'blatant' camp, might there have been an improvement to the area of intended swing? You can see each time he lifts the club - especially the final lift before he makes the stroke - that the second cut of rough behind the ball is flattened. Penalty or not boils down to whether he was grounding the club lightly or pressing the club down more than lightly.

Minor comment on the bolded words here - I think the second cut area immediately behind the ball still meets the definition of lie as that includes natural object....touching the ball or right next to it. But that does not alter the key judgement required - were the CATS improved? I don't see clear evidence of that, but the player's robust actions strike me as pretty risky.

 

[rulie]

Minor comment on the bolded words here - I think the second cut area immediately behind the ball still meets the definition of lie as that includes natural object....touching the ball or right next to it. But that does not alter the key judgement required - were the CATS improved? I don't see clear evidence of that, but the player's robust actions strike me as pretty risky.

I believe that there is a referee with every group at the US Open (as there is at The Open Championship). He or she would have had a better view of the actions than those at home!

 

[CliveW]

were the CATS improved?

Forgive my ignorance, but what are "CATS"?